128 replies to this topic

[Bench Racer]

"Invasive tech was left to the decision of the top 4 finishers after each car had been dynoed...outcome, no tear downs." ^ Very interesting. Is this ^ a documented rule or a rule made on the fly.

[Rob Burgoon]

Does it matter?  NASA can do as NASA pleases.

 

Keep racing with your HOA if you don't like it.

[Bench Racer]

Johnny, HELP! HOA?

[Jamz14]

Hoa translates to english as scca.

[ECOBRAP]

Matt Cresci began the weekend in my car in the hopes a 1.8 was going to give him a better chance to be up front. Unfortunately the motor didnt cooperate and let go in the first qual race  So he got back in his own car which he drove to the track. Starting 31st in the 2nd qual race and no fear of crashing his own car(huge)he let it all hang out and drove to 10th! This put him P20 for the start of the championship race. Barley missing the top off the hill big crash at the start he made up 9 spots in 4 corners before the double yellow came out. P11 at the restart he then drove his way to P3 at the finish and now P2 to because of the 2 position penalty for Mason. Very impressive on all levels! I know there are skeptics but watching from my vantage point, what i saw was a car that was very hooked up and at 125lbs lighter was able to go deeper! His passes under braking and the ability to maintain his momentum with the altered line was the difference. 

 

Pretty much, except for the willing to crash my own car part... definitely not lol, I needed to drive it home and always try to avoid contact anyways. The car was hooked up and let me throw it wherever I wanted, and after coming out of Ron's 1.8 I could tell that my 1.6 was able to get far higher exit speeds through the fast corners on track, pretty much everywhere but the first and final turn. I was exiting Turn 6 2mph faster than I was in Ron's 1.8, which offset the torque advantage of the 1.8's up the back hill. But as Ron said, I clawed my way to the front under braking, not under power. I assure you when I hopped in my car, I thought my weekend was over. I was equally surprised as everyone else seems to be with my performance, I did not think the 1.6 could be competitive at this track either. That being said, I am happy to send my AIM data files and dyno chart to anyone that wants to take a look.

 

Despite being the recipient of all the skepticism, I had a fantastic time at a very fun event and got a lot of publicity with my hard charger award. This was the best drive I have ever done, with NO mistakes until the very last lap when I was pushing to chase down P2, and had zero contact over the entire weekend. Thank you to everyone who supported me this weekend and told me not to give up. I had a great time getting to know unfamiliar folks (Powers, Rusty, Busk, Weaver), and hope to race with them soon. Here is my video, enjoy and let me know what you all think.

 

[Jamz14]

Pretty much, except for the willing to crash my own car part... definitely not lol, I needed to drive it home and always try to avoid contact anyways. The car was hooked up and let me throw it wherever I wanted, and after coming out of Ron's 1.8 I could tell that my 1.6 was able to get far higher exit speeds through the fast corners on track, pretty much everywhere but the first and final turn. I was exiting Turn 6 2mph faster than I was in Ron's 1.8, which offset the torque advantage of the 1.8's up the back hill. But as Ron said, I clawed my way to the front under braking, not under power. I assure you when I hopped in my car, I thought my weekend was over. I was equally surprised as everyone else seems to be with my performance, I did not think the 1.6 could be competitive at this track either. That being said, I am happy to send my AIM data files and dyno chart to anyone that wants to take a look.
 
Despite being the recipient of all the skepticism, I had a fantastic time at a very fun event and got a lot of publicity with my hard charger award. This was the best drive I have ever done, with NO mistakes until the very last lap when I was pushing to chase down P2, and had zero contact over the entire weekend. Thank you to everyone who supported me this weekend and told me not to give up. I had a great time getting to know unfamiliar folks (Powers, Rusty, Busk, Weaver), and hope to race with them soon. Here is my video, enjoy and let me know what you all think.
 

Not everyone was surprised.

[Bench Racer]

Enjoyed the ride.

[john mueller]

 

Keep racing with your HOA if you don't like it.

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!

[powerss]

I always forget how to embed the video so I'll just post the link for now.  Overall was a successful weekend with really close racing all around.  Had a good shot at making the podium if I could could have closed the door on my last lap pass on Tim Weaver.

 

Congratulations to the podium finishers they were running top laptimes all weekend!

 

https://youtu.be/pSb22t8C5Vw

[Chad Martin]

Congrats to the other Mazda Winners and Podium finishers:  More than one podium sweep this past weekend out there.

 

Performance Touring D (PTD) â€“Joshua Allan, racing a third generation Mazda MX-5 for Robert Davis Racing swept the PTD weekend, winning both of the qualifying races and the championship race. Josh was followed across the line by David Vodden and Ali Naimi for a Mazda 1-2-3 podium. 
 

Performance Touring E (PTE) â€“ Ben Anderson repeated his 2014 PTE Championship taking his Mazda RX-7 to the win over Tommy Lo and Gian Bowles for another Mazda 1-2-3 podium sweep. 
 

Super Unlimited â€“ Jon Van Canegham drove his Mazda MZR powered Elan DP02 to another championship win in the Super Unlimited class. 
 

Teen Mazda Challenge â€“ The weekend included two rounds of the Teen Mazda Challenge for which young racers compete within the Spec Miata class. It was a perfect points weekend for Mason Filippi who scored both wins to extend his championship lead over Nick Sommers and Matt Million. Dakota Dickerson and Will Rodgers split the remaining podium positions, each alternating a second and third. 
 

United States Touring Car Championships (USTCC) - The USTCC held a doubleheader in its championship during the NASA weekend. The TNI MAZDASPEED3 Racing team scored a win and a third with drivers Tim Barber and Ron Valtierra. - See more at: http://mazdamotorspo...h.j1tfGuuJ.dpuf

 

And thanks to Ben Anderson for saving our weekend in my RX-7.  I did him no favors with a missed setup on sunday, but he drove through it for the win.

[Ron Alan]

As far as the race itself...huge mess on the start! Maybe 6-8 cars with contact going in a straight line? Not sure what started it. One car had at least 4' of air underneath it as it launched off another. 3 cars towed off. This caused a 1 lap double yellow with pace car back out. Then as the field started its 2nd lap a yellow and red flag was displayed indicating a double file restart. Unfortunately not all drivers understood this and as the leader slowed way down for the p2 to come along side him it never happened. At this point they came around 11 basically in single file...and instead of calling off the start as all the cars started hitting the gas he waived the green...DOH! 

 

Mark got to the lead after 2 more green laps i believe and slowly pulled away. The battle for podium spots was pretty crazy. Dakota Dickerson was right there until the dreaded 99 misfire showed up. In the end it was a 2 corner turn of events that determined the rest. Mason Fillipi missed a shift coming out of 11 in P2. This gave Tim Weaver a small run with Will Rodgers pushing him down to turn 2 past Mason. At turn in Will was still on the brakes and knocked Tim loose into Mason  They had a little more contact side to side as they exited the corner with neither having any kind of momentum. Mason who now was P4 had the run and drove around Tim. He went to the inside of 3 with his momentum as Will turned down. Contact got Will loose enough to send him off losing 3 spots. At this point Matt Cresci was right there. Matt eventually made the pass on Tim with a nice push from Steven Powers down into 2. Post race Mason was bumped 2 spots for the contact with Will. Not sure if any other incidents were looked at or penelties handed out...but there was a lot of contact going on! 

[Jamz14]

As far as the race itself...huge mess on the start! Maybe 6-8 cars with contact going in a straight line? Not sure what started it. One car had at least 4' of air underneath it as it launched off another. 3 cars towed off. This caused a 1 lap double yellow with pace car back out. Then as the field started its 2nd lap a yellow and red flag was displayed indicating a double file restart. Unfortunately not all drivers understood this and as the leader slowed way down for the p2 to come along side him it never happened. At this point they came around 11 basically in single file...and instead of calling off the start as all the cars started hitting the gas he waived the green...DOH! 

 

 

The yellow/red was a question on my provisional exam. I was caught out waiting for the double file queueing that never happened. Last year at Mazda, Nova was caught out having to slow behind emergency vehicles at T8 while the leaders rolled on throttle immediately after passing the emergency vehicles and restarting on the front straight while we are still held up at T8. I guess the lesson is to always stay super tight on the bumper in front of you, or even better yet, be fast enough to not be affected by this or fast enough to dictate this stuff. At 4 seconds off the pace, it will be awhile before I get to dictate anything.

 

PS. Johnny, I wasn't lapped and I wasn't a chicane!! Granted, maybe another lap or two without the safety car and I might have been.

[john mueller]

Okay, time to give a complete explanation of what went down…

 

First off the decision to not perform evasive tech was not an easy one for me.  I didn't sleep Saturday night as I rolled the question and circumstances around in my head over and over and over.  After discussions at the highest levels within NASA I was given the power to make the decision to teardown or not.  In that meeting the criteria was determined to allow me to choose not to teardown.  Read that sentence again, I made the decision.

 

Several factors HAD to be aligned for it to end up as it did:

 

1.  No major disagreements / finger pointing in impound post race as related to newfound speed.  NONE were witnessed.   

 

2.  Lap times of Championship challenging competitors MUST be within line of what was recored throughout the event.  Times were reasonably consistent.

 

3.  Cars sent to the Dyno on Sunday MUST have similar variances as we saw through the week (3hp variance, TQ was within normal ranges).  With the exception of Matts 1.6 (which was within it's expected lower range), there was a 2.2’ish HP variance from Masons 99 to Weavers 01.  Power was consistent.

 

And if the first three were in line, the last one would be asked…

 

4.  The top four drivers would be given their dyno sheets, they could compared them with each other and discuss together or with their team if they agreed with NASA’s assessment that the DATA indicated that a teardown was not necessary.  I would then go sit out of earshot for 20min  and each would have to individually come confirm they agreed with the decision or not.  If anyone had misgivings then all four would be tore down per the submitted SM Tech Plan. 

A dyno sheet from another 1.6 car that was pulled the day prior was requested and they all huddled over it and after about 20min I got the green light from them all that they agreed with the decision.

 

 

Second.  There was a tech plan, it was established months ago and tweaked a few day prior to be current to chatter.  It was more and more evasive leading up to Heads off and the crank being weighed on Sunday.  Despite the reports, we were prepared with personnel and test equipment.  I think Ron already posted a partial list of stuff we did Friday and Saturday, he missed a few things but his list it was close enough.  There was a plan but the circumstances of the weekend gave me pause if it was completely necessary.

 

We dyno’ed many cars,and not just the front runners (Saturday Tech randomly pulled cars as far back as 18th), all cars that were dyno’ed had their ECU’s sealed to the wiring harness and the case edge sealed.  With the exception of Matt's 1.6, the top four cars were dyno'ed twice over the course of the weekend.

• Two 1.6:  Within 2hp of each other, average of 116’ish HP
• One NA8, Several 99’s (actually don’t recall how many), Three VVT’s (01): All within 3HP, TQ differences were within normal range.

 

Third.  This was the most laid-back, relaxing and fun Championship event I’ve ever attended, and I’ve been to eight of the eleven NASA Champs.  After five sessions SM had zero contact reports that were actually real “non normal SM” contact.  Read that sentence again!!!  Zero reported contact that resulted in change of position for ALL of the sessions prior to the Championship race.  AND that included two qualifying races that some say are unnecessarily dangerous (bullshit if you ask me.  Let’s race and not qualify and qualify and qualify).  There were no DQ’s for stupid on-track shit.  Only two repositions, one for driving over the hot pit “blend-line’ to make an aggressive pass and one on Mason for not completing a pass safely.

 

 

So I’ve read all the posts and I totally understand them and they all may be right.  I knew I (NASA) was going to get flamed but we did what we believed was right for the competitors at our event which is a difference experience than others (we like to think NASA is more customer service friendly) and we like it that way.

 

I am resolve in saying that this decision was the right one for this particular event and it’s circumstances on this particular weekend.  The likelihood of this all happening again is remote, EVERYTHING aligned for this to happen and still I was questioning it right up to the point that I called the top four over for a chat.

 

 

I’ll answer reasonable questions on how this went down beyond what I’ve described above and why but I will not get into a back-and-forth with someone just wanting to be a troll.  I appreciate those objective enough to understand how hard this was for me to do and thank you for your continued support of NASA events where we would rather race and have a good time.

[Jamz14]

IMO this was a great event. I don't agree with everything (who does) but overall I was very happy with the format and organization of the event.

 

I want to thank NASA for the great job they did in putting it on. Ryan and his team work very hard on customer satisfaction. Thank you to Ryan, Will, Shawn, John M. , Brett B., and all the NASA people. A special thank you to Chris McCombs our series director for the weekend. Chris worked very closely with me this weekend to ensure that I was having a good time and understood everything that was happening. He was conscientious of my limited experience and was encouraging and supportive of my efforts.

 

A very big Thank You to Mazda. Mazda's support at this event was incredible. Mr. Case and Mr. Cook from Mazda were ever present and they made me feel like part of the Mazda family. Their work with the TMC drivers was incredible. Also got to see the new 2016 Miata. Very beautiful car and from what I hear, better than all the other MX5s before it!

 

All the event sponsors were fantastic. Toyo Tires presence and support was huge. Thank you to Shawn Sampson at SRC a great man with a constant smile. I was able to meet Roger Cadell and Josh from AIM sports. Thank you AIM for the customer service you provide. You went above and beyond for me when my AIM had a hiccup a few events back. Thank you to Ron Cortez and Rob Rodriquez from AIM tires. They were so busy this weekend but they still found time to go above and beyond for me. Another thank you to the folks at Winding Road. I really appreciate your support of NASA.

 

Lastly I want to thank all the drivers for taking the track with me. I am slow and towards the back, but no one made me feel that way. It is an amazing thing that the winner ( Mark Drennan ) took time out of his weekend to encourage me ( a lowly back marker ) and make me feel welcome and like I belonged. Thank you to Tony Senesse, you raced me, encouraged me, advised me. Made me feel like a racer. Thank you to all the drivers that helped me get the car back together after visting the tire wall in T3 on Friday ( I love this aspect of racers! ). Thank you to all the TMC drivers. I think you represented your series with honor and dignity. You demonstrated that as a group, you are indeed the finest drivers in the country. In an event that seemed to have a predetermined winner, you showed that anyone thinking that and taking the winner for granted is a fool. I stand next to you guys at twice to three times your age and feel humbled and honored to know you guys.

 

Thank You!!

[Michael Novak]

John---Thanks for posting. I agree with your thought pattern in general.  that being said----- I like the idea of the tear downs and still feel for such a big event it should be done no matter what. 

 

From what I read I would guess the results were exactly as they should have been.....   

[Rob Burgoon]

John---Thanks for posting. I agree with your thought pattern in general.  that being said----- I like the idea of the tear downs and still feel for such a big event it should be done no matter what. 

 

 

 

"Thank you for your input" 

[john mueller]

"Thank you for your input" 

 

HAHAHA.  HOA.

[powerss]

 

 

Third.  This was the most laid-back, relaxing and fun Championship event I’ve ever attended, and I’ve been to eight of the eleven NASA Champs.  After five sessions SM had zero contact reports that were actually real “non normal SM” contact.  Read that sentence again!!!  Zero reported contact that resulted in change of position for ALL of the sessions prior to the Championship race.  AND that included two qualifying races that some say are unnecessarily dangerous (bullshit if you ask me.  Let’s race and not qualify and qualify and qualify).  There were no DQ’s for stupid on-track shit.  Only two repositions, one for driving over the hot pit “blend-line’ to make an aggressive pass and one on Mason for not completing a pass safely.

 

 

 

 

 

John

I disagree with your choice of words about my blend line violation as an aggressive pass.  I understood the discussion about the blend line in the drivers meeting and I accept the penalty because I was aware but please,  aggressive does not describe the pass in the least (Follow the link and let me know if ANYONE would describe it as aggressive). 

 

I NEVER crossed that line the whole weekend EXCEPT during this pass.  I can tell you I saw several videos and the remainder of cones strewn across the track during the races that the blend line was violated repeatedly ALL weekend.

 

https://youtu.be/xzoi7hcEgmQ

 

Steve

[john mueller]

 

John

I disagree with your choice of words about my blend line violation as an aggressive pass.  I understood the discussion about the blend line in the drivers meeting and I accept the penalty because I was aware but please,  aggressive does not describe the pass in the least (Follow the link and let me know if ANYONE would describe it as aggressive). 

 

I NEVER crossed that line the whole weekend EXCEPT during this pass.  I can tell you I saw several videos and the remainder of cones strewn across the track during the races that the blend line was violated repeatedly ALL weekend.

 

https://youtu.be/xzoi7hcEgmQ

 

Steve

 

 

Steve,  I had no part in the decision to reposition (or Mason though I was asked my opinion on Mason's).  I was informed of the decision to reposition you after your discussion with the Race Director.  Since it was an on-track conduct issue, per the process it would fall to the Race Director and not the Series Director (me) and would not even require my input in anyway.  I was nearly stating how it was explained to me...  I'm sorry to have stated aggression without seeing it for myself but I didn't even know there was video of it.  

 

After watching the video, I'd like to see more of it...  I'd like to see all the way down to exit of T2 so I can see how it effected the car you passed in the rear facing camera.

 

Personally, many folks (myself included) went two wheels into the white once the cones were removed from the area...  REMEMBER in the drivers meeting they explicitly mentioned DON'T HIT THE CONES.  

[powerss]

Steve,  I had no part in the decision to reposition (or Mason though I was asked my opinion on Mason's).  I was informed of the decision to reposition you after your discussion with the Race Director.  Since it was an on-track conduct issue, per the process it would fall to the Race Director and not the Series Director (me) and would not even require my input in anyway.  I was nearly stating how it was explained to me...  I'm sorry to have stated aggression without seeing it for myself but I didn't even know there was video of it.  

 

After watching the video, I'd like to see more of it...  I'd like to see all the way down to exit of T2 so I can see how it effected the car you passed in the rear facing camera.

 

Personally, many folks (myself included) went two wheels into the white once the cones were removed from the area...  REMEMBER in the drivers meeting they explicitly mentioned DON'T HIT THE CONES.  

 

John

 

Apology accepted! Fortunately there were no cones for me to hit since they had already been moved.    

 

Here it is for your curiosity I'm really not complaining about the penalty and I thought the Race Director did a great job all weekend, even though I was on the losing end of this.

 

https://youtu.be/3QwGnc6ymug