51 replies to this topic

[Alberto]

I'm contemplating trying them but don't want to screw around with their bedding process and get it wrong.

I'm used to Hawk DTC60s which bed easily.

Thanks.

[Jamz14]

I wouldn't know. Would never buy pre bedded pads and never had an issue with the bedding procedures for carbotechs, or anyone elses pads.

I think you will like them though.

[Alberto]

I wouldn't know. Would never buy pre bedded pads and never had an issue with the bedding procedures for carbotechs, or anyone elses pads.

 

Really?  They seem to put such a strong emphasis on the bedding process.  

 

Maybe my question should have been - How finicky is it really to bed Carbotech pads?

[Jamz14]

Not finicky at all. The idea is to heat the pads and rotors, lay down an even consistent layer of material on the rotors, and then let them cool. Get as close as you can to their procedure but dont sweat the difference. They will be fine. Just dont set the e brake on the cool down if you still have it as it will warp the rotors.

[Danny Steyn]

I often go out with a new set of Carbotechs installed just for the race. I prefer short pedal travel. IMHO you can easily bed in a set of brake pads in an outlap. If you need more time do it in the qually session or test sessions

[mhiggins10]

I get mine pre-bedded from 5x racing (www.5xracing.com).  Since Carbotechs are the only pads my rotors have ever seen, I don't worry too much at all- just swap them and go.  No need to bed in or mess around in practice/quali and my assumption is that they have followed their procedures to a T.

 

Honestly- it's $25.  Why would you NOT buy pre-bedded if you're already spending ~$200 on new pads?

[Bench Racer]

To procure, SafeRacer.

 

CarboTech has a FAQ page.

 

I have used CarboTech pre bedded from the get go with my rotors. If you use some rotors that had pads other than CarboTech check their FAQ page or ask SafeRacer. 

[Jamz14]

I get mine pre-bedded from 5x racing (www.5xracing.com).  Since Carbotechs are the only pads my rotors have ever seen, I don't worry too much at all- just swap them and go.  No need to bed in or mess around in practice/quali and my assumption is that they have followed their procedures to a T.

 

Honestly- it's $25.  Why would you NOT buy pre-bedded if you're already spending ~$200 on new pads?

Because it is a wasted $25.

[Bench Racer]

Because it is a wasted $25.

 

 

 ^ IYHJ. In your humble judgment.

 

Why wouldn't CarboTech know best for their product.
 

[Jamz14]

Bedding is more for the rotors than for the pads. Higgins is right about his rotors only seeing carbotechs and that greatly reduces the need for any spec bedding procedure. So if you want to spend an additional $25.00 for "prebedded" pads; go for it. But buying prebedded and thinking that this gets you around having to bed in on new rotors is wrong IMO. How does bedding the pads but not new rotors get around this?

[Jamz14]

 ^ IYHJ. In your humble judgment.

 

Why wouldn't CarboTech know best for their product.
 

Because Carbotech is in the business of selling product. If they can get you to spend $25 extra on pads because you believe there is an advantage they will. If they know best for their product then why are they offering both version? Which one is best?

 

Nothing humble about my judgements. I feel the way I feel about it and you feel the way you do about. It's just I am $50.00 richer than you after a pad change.

[Alberto]

^That's how I understood it as well.  I'm looking for the whole package of rotors and pads.  Bolt them on and beat them like bedded brakes.

 

I had assumed pre-bedding means that you buy the pad and the rotor they were bedded to together.

[Johnny D]

I don't think so.

I can turn your rotor if you want.

J~

[Jamz14]

Here is my take on bedding. This didn't come from me, but from reading different things put out by Carbotech, Ferrodo, ETC.

 

Bedding pads is more about the rotors and cooling than it is about the pads and heating. New pads will not initially be formed to the rotor. They tend to lay down material unevenly at first. This uneven layer of material cools unevenly. This uneven cooling can warp new rotors. So minor differences in the heating procedures is not really important. Get the pads and rotors hot, make sure you go through enough braking cycles to "form" the pads to the rotors which ensures an even layer of material on the rotors, and let them cool completely after bedding without the brakes applying undue pressures to the rotors as they cool (no e brakes).

 

In my not so humble opinion. Bedding is way more important on road cars than race cars. Road cars generally don't brake hard enough to fully form the pads and lay down even material on the first application. The first application is the important piece as it is the first cooling on uneven rotors that cause the problem. Race cars go out and begin braking hard enough to accomplish this right away. And most racers know not to set E brakes after just coming off the track and even smarter ones don't have E brakes to set and brake pads that don't excessively drag on the rotor when the brakes aren't applied.

[Bench Racer]

Along with the CarboTech FAQ, watch the Essex parts video on pad/rotor bedding. Don't believe you can procure rotors pre-bedded with CarboTech pads. Procure pre-bedded pads and bed the new or machined skimmed rotors in a couple laps. After the first pre-bed of the rotors when using pre-bedded pads pre-bedding rotors is history until new rotors are required. Call Mike (father) or Danny (son) owners of CarboTech. 216-642-8502 or Mike cell 216-406-8140

 

Lots of people don't use pre-bedded pads or bed their rotors and they also don't get the same life as if they had bedded.  

[Alberto]

Thanks fellas.  I'll give them a call and get the scoop direct from the horse's mouth.

[Brandon]

Big believer in Carbotechs and equally big believer in their bedding process.

It's a two-fold issue I think: getting pad material transferred to new rotors and also to finalizing the curing of the material on the backing plate.

 

I've seen/heard of new pads being ruined when used on new rotors w/o bedding being done.  They essentially crumble and chunk while leaving you w/o any confidence in the brakes overall.

 

I'll leave it to Mr. Steyn on whether bedding needs to be done when moving between compounds (AX vs. XP vs. RP...) but if you're merely moving from an XP10 --> XP12, I don't believe you need to re-bed.

 

The Puskar's a good bunch of folks and are more than forthcoming on providing details about their products - give them a ring!

[Danny Steyn]

Yup, Brandon the Puskars are one of those great racing families, and will be more than willing to discuss your needs and break in approach.

 

The Carbotechs have several different compounds for Spec Miata. Some exhibit very high initial grip, and will suit the late threshold breaker who has good feel in the pedal as with all high initial grip pads there is a strong chance of flat spotting tires. Some are designed more for the progressive breaker. I suggest trying out several combos over a test day weekend and settling on a set that offers you the best feel for your personal braking style.

 

One thing to be aware of is that if you go with the very high initial grip compounds, it might be necessary to change out the pads to a more progressive compound when it rains, as they might just have too much bite to modulate effectively in the rain. IMO that is one of the trade-offs with high initial grip compounds. Remember that the rain might come half way through a race.

 

As always YMMV.

[Jamz14]

Big believer in Carbotechs and equally big believer in their bedding process.

It's a two-fold issue I think: getting pad material transferred to new rotors and also to finalizing the curing of the material on the backing plate.

 

I've seen/heard of new pads being ruined when used on new rotors w/o bedding being done.  They essentially crumble and chunk while leaving you w/o any confidence in the brakes overall.

 

I'll leave it to Mr. Steyn on whether bedding needs to be done when moving between compounds (AX vs. XP vs. RP...) but if you're merely moving from an XP10 --> XP12, I don't believe you need to re-bed.

 

The Puskar's a good bunch of folks and are more than forthcoming on providing details about their products - give them a ring!

Brandon, this doesn't make sense. If the bedding is to apply a final cure to the backing plate, then whether you are moving between compounds or even using the same compound, per your logic of curing the backplate bonding, the bedding process would still have to be conducted.

 

And why wouldn't the manufactures just cure the backplate bonding before selling?

 

I believe in bedding processes too. However for different reasons than posted here. I also don't believe that exact compliance with the bedding procedure is needed. Do you know how hard it is to follow exactly the bedding procedures on public roads? I seriously doubt anyone can keep the procedure within 20% of the recommendation unless the recommendation is purposely defined fairly wide. If defined wide enough to account for 20% variance in how it is done, then I suggest that the exact procedure isn't that critical. 

[Jamz14]

Alberto, I have no doubt that the owners of Carbotech are good people. And I am a believer in their brakes. That said, I feel I am a good person and I feel like I work for a good manufacturer. However, manufactures have a skill in making technically true statements about their products, but the technicality of it all not really being relevant to real world use. The points manufactures make on their products are just usually too fine to be relevant to the consumer. They are relevant in comparing to their competitors. For instance, my company makes F connectors. We make all kinds of true statements about our connectors. But at the end of the day, a coat hanger would work in most cases. Were they lies? No. Did they matter to most customers? No. Customers care about price assuming that most critical things are equal.