79 replies to this topic

[Clubracer6]

First of all, congrats to Danny, and the rest of the podium finishers, all of the competitors and race staff for making the 60th running a great event!  I do not want to take away from that, so thought I would not include the following remarks in the June Sprints thread.

 

I truly apologize to all my fellow competitors and Advanced Autosports for my restrictor not being in compliance.

 

It was certainly a massive disappointment and a bit of a shock to say the least and mostly embarrassing.  With that I am truly glad to see the level of scrutiny coming to the class this year.  Hopefully it will ultimately catch all the people trying to take a short cut to the front.

 

I originally bought this car in 2009, but sold it to a buddy as I decided to go GT1 racing instead, followed by some continental races in ST, some NASA Super Touring and finally GT2 in 2013.  None of it went well and I sold my GT2 Corvette - (the one with the small fire at the Runoffs in 2013) early last year and decided to hang it up.

 

The Miata I sold to my buddy was still just a shell with a cage and was at the shop responsible for the disaster GT1 and GT2 seasons.  I told my buddy I would help him get it done so it would leave the shop completed and then we could do what we wanted with it. He had already paid for labor, he just never had the funding for the parts.

 

In January I green lighted and funded the finishing of it and it was to be done in April, didn't get done until July. Ran its first race at Gingerman and we did ok, 8th I believe, but I had a great time and wanted to do this a bit more.  At the time it made 123rwhp.  Ran a couple of council races, but the car was still not complete.  Frustrated with the shop and knowing they were pretty much shut down I asked Dave at Advanced to go collect it in November and told them to fix all that was wrong with it.  There was quite a bit.  A totally gutted dashboard, doors (without the door bars that allow for that) ACT clutch, some after market fly wheel and a host of other issues.

 

I had no idea what we had for motor, but was not too worried about since I seemed to be a bit down compared to others.  As soon as the rules were finalized in this year, we shipped the head to Stewart and due to timing he did it himself and got it back in time for Road Atlanta.  It did not take him long to realized the head was ported pretty heavily and I ended up having to find a new core and shipping it to him.

 

Back together it put down more power than Advanced had every seen and this head was legal compared to what came off.  We wrote it off Stewart just doing a meticulous job and getting a bit lucky.  At this point nobody thought to look at the restrictor, because why would you?  We would never think to inspect it as it's one of the easiest things to catch. They are routinely pulled and inspected and as you can see from the picture, anyone would see that it's not right.  I was so worried about the power after Road Atlanta as you could just tell it was strong and so could some others. But I still had some I was pretty equal with, so I thought I just had something that the front runners did in terms of power. 

 

The bottom line is I never knew and it would never be my intention to cheat.  I hate that this class has become so expensive to run. I ran in the class from 2001 to 2007 and had at best a $9k car maybe 10 and I was competitive.

 

It's completely ok if you do not believe me or my story here, but I do want to be clear that Dave and his amazing crew at Advanced Autosports had no idea, did not build the car, and nor would they ever do anything like that. I believe most reading that will know this, but I had to say it as I just feel awful about this happening under their tent. They do not deserve this kind of press and again had nothing to do with the original build.  They were handed a pile of garbage and righted almost all of the wrong. I do not hold them accountable for not checking the restrictor, again, why would anyone try to cheat here.

 

I am hopeful the new restrictor will not make that huge of a difference and not because of future races, but because of how it will reflect on my previous race performances with this car.

 

Thanks for reading this far and again my sincere apologies to my competitors and the Advanced Autosports team.

 

Karim Alex Talbot SM #4

clubracer6@aol.com

224-622-8900

Attached Files

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[Danny Steyn]

Karim

 

nice meeting you this weekend in tech shed. Respect for coming here and telling your story. It goes a long way to putting this behind you and clearing the air. 

[davew]

I just returned home and would like to also appologise. To Alex and to the competitors that compete against us every weekend.

This car was built by a non Spec Miata shop. Nobody we know. The shop simply did what they wanted with no regard for the rules. Alex was an unwitting victim. I went through the car and found numerous things done improperly, some did make sense, some did not meet the rules. We fixed everything we could. Unfortunately the restricter plate was never removed and looked at. With the fresh head, the car was 1.5 hp above other good Stewart motors. we assumed it had the magic parts. The intake looked normal and the whistler was fine.

I never thought to check the RP, other than it was purple. I mean nobody would mess with the RP on a car going to Majors events. At least nobody with half a brain.

I would like to point out that the plate was obviously modified. Had I even given it a passing glance in the tech shed I would have noticed the silver inner bore. B ut I never thought to even expect a bad plate. Which would have saved me from pulling the head off. FYI, the head was found compliant.

Let me reiterate that ALex's only instructions where to fix the car and make the car legal. I failed to do that. And for that I aapologize to everyone involved in this race.

Congrats to Danny and Todd for a great race. My hat is off to Jim Drago for a great run in wet conditions while on dry tires.

dave

[Jonathan Davis]

I also find myself in the unenviable position of having to apologize to the community. I came to this event with every intention of doing well enough to get torn down, so no one was more surprised than me when the measuring tool dropped into the relief cut. All I can say is that I will be back at the next event with a fully compliant head and I hope to do well enough to get torn down again.

 

Congrats to Danny and Todd and congrats to my friend George Clos for a podium result. And thanks to the Clos family for taking time to help me pull my head even while their own car was in the tech building getting looked at.

[Jim Drago]

First of all, congrats to Danny, and the rest of the podium finishers, all of the competitors and race staff for making the 60th running a great event!  I do not want to take away from that, so thought I would not include the following remarks in the June Sprints thread.
 
I truly apologize to all my fellow competitors and Advanced Autosports for my restrictor not being in compliance.
 
It was certainly a massive disappointment and a bit of a shock to say the least and mostly embarrassing.  With that I am truly glad to see the level of scrutiny coming to the class this year.  Hopefully it will ultimately catch all the people trying to take a short cut to the front.
 
I originally bought this car in 2009, but sold it to a buddy as I decided to go GT1 racing instead, followed by some continental races in ST, some NASA Super Touring and finally GT2 in 2013.  None of it went well and I sold my GT2 Corvette - (the one with the small fire at the Runoffs in 2013) early last year and decided to hang it up.
 
The Miata I sold to my buddy was still just a shell with a cage and was at the shop responsible for the disaster GT1 and GT2 seasons.  I told my buddy I would help him get it done so it would leave the shop completed and then we could do what we wanted with it. He had already paid for labor, he just never had the funding for the parts.
 
In January I green lighted and funded the finishing of it and it was to be done in April, didn't get done until July. Ran its first race at Gingerman and we did ok, 8th I believe, but I had a great time and wanted to do this a bit more.  At the time it made 123rwhp.  Ran a couple of council races, but the car was still not complete.  Frustrated with the shop and knowing they were pretty much shut down I asked Dave at Advanced to go collect it in November and told them to fix all that was wrong with it.  There was quite a bit.  A totally gutted dashboard, doors (without the door bars that allow for that) ACT clutch, some after market fly wheel and a host of other issues.
 
I had no idea what we had for motor, but was not too worried about since I seemed to be a bit down compared to others.  As soon as the rules were finalized in this year, we shipped the head to Stewart and due to timing he did it himself and got it back in time for Road Atlanta.  It did not take him long to realized the head was ported pretty heavily and I ended up having to find a new core and shipping it to him.
 
Back together it put down more power than Advanced had every seen and this head was legal compared to what came off.  We wrote it off Stewart just doing a meticulous job and getting a bit lucky.  At this point nobody thought to look at the restrictor, because why would you?  We would never think to inspect it as it's one of the easiest things to catch. They are routinely pulled and inspected and as you can see from the picture, anyone would see that it's not right.  I was so worried about the power after Road Atlanta as you could just tell it was strong and so could some others. But I still had some I was pretty equal with, so I thought I just had something that the front runners did in terms of power. 
 
The bottom line is I never knew and it would never be my intention to cheat.  I hate that this class has become so expensive to run. I ran in the class from 2001 to 2007 and had at best a $9k car maybe 10 and I was competitive.
 
It's completely ok if you do not believe me or my story here, but I do want to be clear that Dave and his amazing crew at Advanced Autosports had no idea, did not build the car, and nor would they ever do anything like that. I believe most reading that will know this, but I had to say it as I just feel awful about this happening under their tent. They do not deserve this kind of press and again had nothing to do with the original build.  They were handed a pile of garbage and righted almost all of the wrong. I do not hold them accountable for not checking the restrictor, again, why would anyone try to cheat here.
 
I am hopeful the new restrictor will not make that huge of a difference and not because of future races, but because of how it will reflect on my previous race performances with this car.
 
Thanks for reading this far and again my sincere apologies to my competitors and the Advanced Autosports team.
 
Karim Alex Talbot SM #4
clubracer6@aol.com
224-622-8900

Karim
Thanks for posting. I know from experience it is not a fun thing to do.

A few things...
If this shop is not a SM shop and willing to obviously port the head and the restrictor, why not name them to insure no one else falls into the same trap? Protecting people who are that willing to break the rules is not in our best interest of our class. It also puts doubt in peoples minds and makes them think perhaps you were aware. I am not saying that or accusing you, just stating the obvious.

I would think that the car being the best car on Daves dyno coupled with the previous head porting may have thrown up a red flag to look a little further, but understandable.

You likely have serious issues going on with your car as I have used Jim Stewart for years before starting our own engine program. I was always very satisfied with what he delivered. His stuff was always consistent and routinely made within 2 hp of each other. That plate being about 10mm larger than the one for specified for the car should be making 9-11 hp more. If the car was competitive there, you are not going to be happy with it with the performance of your car with the 38 mm plate. I think you will be going from plus 1.5 to down more than 8.I'm sure Dave will figure it out, but looks like he will have some work to do.

Again thanks for posting and best of luck sorting the car, hopefully you will be back for the CAT and finish well there and put this to rest once and for all. All you can do is apologize, and show up with a compliant car and hope to prove yourself. I am certainly willing to give you that chance.

Jim

[38bfast]

I also find myself in the unenviable position of having to apologize to the community. I came to this event with every intention of doing well enough to get torn down, so no one was more surprised than me when the measuring tool dropped into the relief cut. All I can say is that I will be back at the next event with a fully compliant head and I hope to do well enough to get torn down again.
 
Congrats to Danny and Todd and congrats to my friend George Clos for a podium result. And thanks to the Clos family for taking time to help me pull my head even while their own car was in the tech building getting looked at.

Jonatan correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you send the head back to Rossini this year to have it checked for compliance to the 2015 rules?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Jonatan correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you send the head back to Rossini this year to have it checked for compliance to the 2015 rules?

If that is in fact true I think somebody owes Jonathon all of his weekends racing expenses back...

[Clubracer6]

Danny - thanks and congrats again. I was the guy that suggested you have David Hobbs autograph you winning banner.

 

David no apology needed, again I would never expect you to look there.

 

Jonathan, great run and sorry for your surprise as well.  You seem like a great guy with a lot of heart and your genuinely quick.

 

Jim - thank you for the feedback and well wishes. The shop is no longer in existence and I'm trying not to be the guy that's out there slamming people.  The shop that built my car originally went by the name of Automekanika Racing and then Import Repair more recently before closing.  They built my original Spec Miata back in 2000 and then some others as well after that.  I will go on record to say I am not accusing them, but I do know the restrictor was ordered from SCCA and shipped right to them.  Since 2009 I have been a total arrive and drive driver and this Miata was never once in my possession. I only see it at the track and occasionally at the shop when I stop by.  The car was picked up from them by Advanced and again there is no doubt in anyone's mind that they had anything to do with this, so conclusions can be drawn on our own from there.  A bit more than I wanted to say and not because I was protecting anyone else, but don't want have anyone coming after me for slander.

 

Yep, I know I'm going to be down a bit on HP and will need to deal with that, but it's the least of my concerns.   Unfortunately I've been trying to sell the car (see RacingJunk) as I just don't have the time to do this as much as I would like and again hate the fact that these cars cost as much as they do. I actually could have sold it before the Sprints but chose not too because I really wanted to run the event.  I am very thankful it did not sell as I would have hated for this to happen to someone else after selling it to them.  With that, I now have a car what is worth less and I need to either cut it loose for less than I originally wanted or run it again at Majors in 2016.  Hopefully in the next couple months I can run with Midwestern Council (events done in one day), which was my plan but with a lesser car (mid year 1.8) for 10 to 15k less than what I thought I would get for my car.  So we'll see how badly my laps times suffer there.

 

I honestly can't believe I still want to race - it's been a brutal 7 seasons and yet I keep pushing through hoping for things to turn around.  #firstworldproblems

 

Thanks again

[38bfast]

I would have to make the assumption that because of recent findings EVERYONE with a restrictor plate in their car needs to pull it out and self inspect what they have. The excuse of I did not know isn't going to fly past this point foward. Very easy task everyone should be capable of doing.

I am sure Dave at advanced is going through every car in his shop right now.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

This is also a real lesson for any future buyers!!!

Buy from known quality sm people, everything out there claiming to be legal and front runner etc... Is not and lots of times not even close! Buy from someone with skin in the game who values their reputation more then the few bucks that will go.into their pockets!!!

[Jim Drago]

Danny - thanks and congrats again. I was the guy that suggested you have David Hobbs autograph you winning banner.
 
David no apology needed, again I would never expect you to look there.
 
Jonathan, great run and sorry for your surprise as well.  You seem like a great guy with a lot of heart and your genuinely quick.
 
Jim - thank you for the feedback and well wishes. The shop is no longer in existence and I'm trying not to be the guy that's out there slamming people.  The shop that built my car originally went by the name of Automekanika Racing and then Import Repair more recently before closing.  They built my original Spec Miata back in 2000 and then some others as well after that.  I will go on record to say I am not accusing them, but I do know the restrictor was ordered from SCCA and shipped right to them.  Since 2009 I have been a total arrive and drive driver and this Miata was never once in my possession. I only see it at the track and occasionally at the shop when I stop by.  The car was picked up from them by Advanced and again there is no doubt in anyone's mind that they had anything to do with this, so conclusions can be drawn on our own from there.  A bit more than I wanted to say and not because I was protecting anyone else, but don't want have anyone coming after me for slander.
 
Yep, I know I'm going to be down a bit on HP and will need to deal with that, but it's the least of my concerns.   Unfortunately I've been trying to sell the car (see RacingJunk) as I just don't have the time to do this as much as I would like and again hate the fact that these cars cost as much as they do. I actually could have sold it before the Sprints but chose not too because I really wanted to run the event.  I am very thankful it did not sell as I would have hated for this to happen to someone else after selling it to them.  With that, I now have a car what is worth less and I need to either cut it loose for less than I originally wanted or run it again at Majors in 2016.  Hopefully in the next couple months I can run with Midwestern Council (events done in one day), which was my plan but with a lesser car (mid year 1.8) for 10 to 15k less than what I thought I would get for my car.  So we'll see how badly my laps times suffer there.
 
I honestly can't believe I still want to race - it's been a brutal 7 seasons and yet I keep pushing through hoping for things to turn around.  #firstworldproblems
 
Thanks again

Thanks again! Good enough for me
Jim

[Jonathan Davis]

Jonatan correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you send the head back to Rossini this year to have it checked for compliance to the 2015 rules?

 

I did have the head recently refreshed. Both the builder and myself looked at everything and believed it to be compliant. Obviously we made a mistake, but as the owner, driver, and mechanic, the ultimate responsibility lies with me. That being said, I have no doubt whatsoever that everything will be made right and I have 100% confidence that my new head will be fully compliant.

[Steve Scheifler]

This is also a real lesson for any future buyers!!!

Buy from known quality sm people, everything out there claiming to be legal and front runner etc... Is not and lots of times not even close! Buy from someone with skin in the game who values their reputation more then the few bucks that will go.into their pockets!!!

Sounds good but pretty much impossible. But it really is your responsibility, so when in even the slightest doubt factor in the cost of having an experienced and reliable SM shop go through all the common stuff at least. Then cross your fingers.

[davew]

Hind sight being 20/20, I can say that I should have looked at the plate more closely. But, I saw purple and thought that nobody would be stupid enough to mess with the plate. It is the most obvious and easiest thing for tech to inspect.

 

I personally pulled the plate at the track. I removed it and in one swing of my arm(never even glancing at it) handed it to a tech official. Had I even taken a passing glance, I would have seen the silver line at the inner bore. Had I looked at the plate, we never would have pulled the head.

 

To Jim's comment about the dyno numbers. On my dyno, I have seen several 129.xxx  hp motors from various engine builders. Alex's motor was 130.5. The best I had seen, but not crazy out of the realm numbers. Jim Stewart had personally done the head. This was right as the new head rules where coming out. And it was a cold winter day with great air. We checked bore and looked at the intake and exhaust while it was apart. But we never unbolted the throttle body. I even had the local SCCA tech crew whistle test the motor. I thought we had a magic motor.

 

On Saturday night I was P.O.ed, There are a couple dented garbage cans at Road America to prove it. Now, I am just embarassed. My reputation among the SM community means everything to me. I hope you all understand this was a failure of what we did NOT do (inspect the plate ourselves) and not something we did (bore the plate).

 

I hope you all understand

dave

[Danny Steyn]

Dave - just so you know, you have NOTHING BUT RESPECT from the Spec Miata Community. What you have done, and continue to do for Spec Miata, is almost unlikely to be equalled. Not a single person that I know even remotely thinks that you would do this intentionally, but as we have all seen, some stuff just gets missed.

 

So sorry for you to have to go through this

[Mike Tesch]

I rarely post on any kind of forums, but feel the need to here as I have experience with all parties involved.

 

I have been racing in Spec Miata forever (including being at the first Pro Spec Miata race in Kershaw, SC way back) and have built many cars for many customers.  I have been out of racing for the past two years, but still keep in the loop.

 

I have known Alex since we raced SSB and the Neon Challenge together back in 1996.  We only talk a couple of times a year or so, but I consider him a great friend.  His racing experiences are epic.  With that said, I can't remember Alex ever getting his hands dirty EVER working on a car.  It's just not his thing.  I can assure anyone that he had no idea that the plate was non-compliant.  Alex is a straight shooter... it's simply not in his DNA.

 

I also worked for about a year for Dave at Advanced Autosports.  All work in Dave's shop was above board, top quality,  and done within the rules.  Any cheating simply was not done.  I can assure anyone, if Dave says he didn't know about the plate, he didn't know.  Dave runs a very successful race shop that prides itself on its product and its customer service.  I would trust Dave at his word.

 

And lastly, I have dealt with the shop that built the Spec Miata in question.  I could write pages on the products that come out of their shop.  I can only imagine the problems that were found with the car after leaving their shop.  While racing in Grand Am many years ago, we spent dozens of hours on their chassis dyno, and I was able to see some of their work.  Nice work, but totally ignorant of any rules or common sense.  I wouldn't know where to start detailing some of the things I've seen.

 

To summarize... Alex couldn't tell a restrictor plate from a bottle of Ketchup (sorry Alex), Dave and his guys simply overlooked something too obvious, and never, EVER, take your car to Automekanika in IL.

 

... back into my hole I go...

[Johnny D]

Ok, everyone's sorry, honest mistake, everyone vouching for everyone, pure as the driven snow, check.

 

What's up with Britt Casey Jr going to the back ?

J~

[davew]

From what I heard, Britt was found 2 pounds light after several weighings.

 

dave

 

p.s. Alex, ketsup is red, restricter plates are purple. Just so you don't get them mixed up

 

dave

[Bench Racer]

^
^

^

ketchup

 

My spell check also sucks.

[Johnny D]

Ok, these are all things that could happen. It's unfortunate.

 

Any suggestion for next time ?

J~