79 replies to this topic

[Mike Tesch]

https://www.youtube....h?v=co5GTmDU4oY

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I would hope that all those that were found non compliant will try to remember how it felt so next time when the shoe is on someone else's foot, there won't be a crusifiction...

There was zero drama in the tech shed it was all matter of fact stuff. I think for the most part we have put the stupid whitch hunt to an end since nearly every major team has had their issues.

We still have the best class for racing on the planet

[Johnny D]

https://www.youtube....h?v=BAomAwIwxm8

J~

[Steve Scheifler]

Kyle, not sure which stupid witch hunt you're talking about, but some of the drama last year served a purpose and made this a better class for more people. And this being racing, and people being what people are, it likely isn't over.

[Johnny D]

https://www.youtube....h?v=DbsEDVaPTCY

J~

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Kyle, not sure which stupid witch hunt you're talking about, but some of the drama last year served a purpose and made this a better class for more people. And this being racing, and people being what people are, it likely isn't over.

I guess it was more of a worlock hunt. After runnoffs there were suddenly 2 guys being held accountable for indiscretions, now we have a so called saint that has had his engines fail tech twice already this year... How many of the two warlocks motors have failed this season to date?

I think that makes it pretty clear what I'm saying here...

Not that any of this non compliance makes much of a difference unless it's a 4+ hp deal that is simply overlooked by a team that in no way would ever be dumb enough to try that.

[Tyson Schwiesow]

Felt pretty bad for Britt.  Got to know him a bit better this weekend.  That kid knows how to drive a car. 

[FTodaro]

 but some of the drama last year served a purpose and made this a better class for more people. And this being racing, and people being what people are, it likely isn't over.

It would be nice if we could come up with a way to seal parts and motors, after they have been through the tech inspections. If I were good enough to be on the podium frequently in a Major, i would not be happy about repeatedly having to pull the same head off of my car. Yes, i know the argument, that any seal can be defeated, but if that is the mentality of the racer, you never going to keep them honest, anyway.  But on the other hand, it would reduce some of the punishment for the fast honest racers.

[LarryKing]

Frank, the experts on this site have assured us that seals won't work.

[Danny Steyn]

Frank, I couldn't agree with you more. I have had the head on my 99 off and inspected 3 times this year and its getting really old, especially for Tom and his crew. And its also no fun for Bauer either. And this doesnt count the removal and inspection of transmissions, shocks and differentials that we have had to endure.

 

I spoke to Bauer at the sprints to see if he would entertain a sealing program and he is all for it. However the logistics are not that easy. The components have to be inspected by him and approved, and then the engine has to be reassembled in his presence in order to check that the tested compliant parts are the ones making it into the sealed motor. I believe Todd Lamb was going to do that at the Sprints, reassemble his car with Bauer there and then have it sealed. Not sure if that happened or not.

 

So really you need your engine builder present at the teardown to reassemble, and honestly, the tech shed is not a great place to reassemble an engine.

 

I will raise this at SMAC and see if there is a sensible way to get engines inspected and sealed.

[Mike Collins]

It would be nice if we could come up with a way to seal parts and motors, after they have been through the tech inspections. If I were good enough to be on the podium frequently in a Major, i would not be happy about repeatedly having to pull the same head off of my car. Yes, i know the argument, that any seal can be defeated, but if that is the mentality of the racer, you never going to keep them honest, anyway.  But on the other hand, it would reduce some of the punishment for the fast honest racers.

Seals for sale  Please don't delete, I'll buy an ad in the classifieds....

[Blake Thompson]

Funny to me someone went to all the trouble to cut that so nicely but then not take a purple marker and color in the groove.

 

Shit happens but if I'm Alex it's time to take that entire pig apart and find the rest of the naughtiness that's better hidden.

[Blake Thompson]

From what I heard, Britt was found 2 pounds light after several weighings.

 

dave

 

p.s. Alex, ketsup is red, restricter plates are purple. Just so you don't get them mixed up

 

dave

 

I think ours is piss yellow.  There's a red one floating around too.  

 

but my car doesn't have a restrictor plate.  Y'all reckon it should?

[Jamz14]

Frank, I couldn't agree with you more. I have had the head on my 99 off and inspected 3 times this year and its getting really old, especially for Tom and his crew. And its also no fun for Bauer either. And this doesnt count the removal and inspection of transmissions, shocks and differentials that we have had to endure.

 

I spoke to Bauer at the sprints to see if he would entertain a sealing program and he is all for it. However the logistics are not that easy. The components have to be inspected by him and approved, and then the engine has to be reassembled in his presence in order to check that the tested compliant parts are the ones making it into the sealed motor. I believe Todd Lamb was going to do that at the Sprints, reassemble his car with Bauer there and then have it sealed. Not sure if that happened or not.

 

So really you need your engine builder present at the teardown to reassemble, and honestly, the tech shed is not a great place to reassemble an engine.

 

I will raise this at SMAC and see if there is a sensible way to get engines inspected and sealed.

And if you are your own engine builder do you get the privilege of sealing your own engines? Some of us still build our own engines. A lot of us don't fly in to race under our builders tent and have them present to support us in every way at the track. Especially after this last weekend I really wish I could do that, and if I had unlimited funds I would gladly support your seal program. I would have had my builder seal up my STR infringed head two years ago and been happy that it was never torn down, inspected, and thought to be legal by all my competitors.

 

I suggest some middle ground. Fewer cars checked at each race. Winner and one random (sorry, don't feel too bad for you if you are winning every weekend and getting teched each weekend.). A program to check a wide variety of things. Some times it will be deep; heads, gearboxes, diffs. Sometimes it would be more superficial and easier on the competitor; shocks, the stall check you guys did, fuel, ETC. But it happens at every race not just majors weekends. Randomly draw the tech item before the weekend. Couple this with special tech deemed necessary by the regional SM director for things he may be spotting and I think you have the right balance for tech.

 

It would be really nice though if we would figure out ECU tech and get it implemented.

[Danny Steyn]

Jamz

 

the right balance for tech is the hard part to get right. When we don't have invasive tech, everyone passes. When we have invasive tech, that's when some get caught. In this class where tenths and hundredths are separating lap times, most of us want a tight spec that is adhered to. As I say, not all, but most do.

 

But I will guarantee you that if you pull your cars apart every majors, this gets old and expensive really fast. I have taken my motors home in pieces four times this year. They have to be sent to my engine builder to be reassembled. The diff and tranny are not major issues, there they are just opening to inspect, and can be easily closed up and reinstalled. Shocks once dyno'd can simply be reinstalled. It the invasive tear down that wears you out financially and wears out your crew, especially if they still have to pack up the rig and drive another two days to get back home. 

 

As I said we all want strict specs, and we want to be held to these specs, but perhaps there are other ways to avoid making this so onerous. And Mike - there are seals and then there are seals. It can be done!

[Tom Sager]

Nobody IMO should have to take a head off 3 times in a season unless there have been protests or some very bad repeat history.  In Danny's case it's a symptom of a lot of success this year.  This adds a lot of work and expense to what is already a lot of work and expensive.  For me if it were to happen a 2nd time in a season I would put my car on the trailer and not care about public perception or being suspended.  It becomes a matter of principle at that point with the underlying reasons being that we do this for fun, have jobs and families and better places to spend the added money and time.

 

On the other hand, as long as tech keeps finding non-compliant parts it supports doing it.  

[Jamz14]

So what you are suggesting Danny is that your expenses will go down with a seal program that reduces the number of times you are torn down, but other small garages like mine the expenses will go up dramatically as I have to pay for someone to do the work that I was previously doing myself. A lot of us don't have "crews". I have myself most of the time. Alot of us don't send our motors off to be reassembled, we do it ourselves. Find the middle ground. I really don't think it that hard to do.

 

Pulling a head is not a huge deal. If I was winning every race and they made me pull the head every race I wouldn't have a problem with that. That doesn't mean that I would enjoy it. Just that I understand it. But I am not suggesting that they have you pull your head multiple times. I am suggesting that the program should cover many more things than just the head and that only two people would be affected by tech on any given weekend. Unless you are winning every race (which no one here is), you wouldn't be teched as much as you are now. This seems to address the dilemma that you correctly identified above; the need for tech, without causing undue grief to those that just want to come out and enjoy the weekend.

[Todd Lamb]

I think some of you have the wrong idea. The engine builders wouldn't seal the motors, SCCA tech would.

 

We had the option of reassembling the motor in tech this weekend so that SCCA tech could seal it. We decided we'd rather have East Street reassemble so we don't miss anything but since East Street had already left by the time tech was cleared we weren't able to do it on the spot and get it sealed by SCCA. It isn't that big of a deal - we ship the head, it comes back reassembled a few days later by the experts so we know nothing was missed. We will still be required to remove the head next time we are asked, and hopefully the circumstances will allow us to have SCCA tech seal it at that time so we don't have to keep pulling the head.

 

I'd rather have too much tech that not enough. It is time to start looking in other places though. Suspension/subframes, flywheels, engine bottom end, hidden cage attachment points, ECU's, etc.

[FTodaro]

Frank, I couldn't agree with you more. I have had the head on my 99 off and inspected 3 times this year and its getting really old, especially for Tom and his crew. And its also no fun for Bauer either. And this doesnt count the removal and inspection of transmissions, shocks and differentials that we have had to endure.

 

I spoke to Bauer at the sprints to see if he would entertain a sealing program and he is all for it. However the logistics are not that easy. The components have to be inspected by him and approved, and then the engine has to be reassembled in his presence in order to check that the tested compliant parts are the ones making it into the sealed motor. I believe Todd Lamb was going to do that at the Sprints, reassemble his car with Bauer there and then have it sealed. Not sure if that happened or not.

 

So really you need your engine builder present at the teardown to reassemble, and honestly, the tech shed is not a great place to reassemble an engine.

 

I will raise this at SMAC and see if there is a sensible way to get engines inspected and sealed.

As I said its controversial but we need to come up with a way to start minimizing the burden on the racers while at the same time giving confidence to the class that people are running legal stuff.

 

At Mid Ohio, the told Drago on Saturday that they were taking his head off, (the one on the motor) we were done at 11 am that day so they chose to do it saturday and did it infront of the tech crew. If given the choice that is how i would do it and have it sealed.

 

I do not argue the point that seals can be defeated, but some judgment by the powers to be should also come into play. for example, do you think that Danny is going to pull his head at the sprints, and then go to the next major at the Glen with a cheated up head? I doubt it. My point everyone is fair game the first time, but after awhile, some assumptions of compliance are in order, unless their lap times are suspect.

 

ANOTHER Question:

 

On all the cars that come thought tech, if found in compliance or not, are the items checked, documented in the log book?

 

and If Not Why Not?

 

anything invasive in tech should be documented in the log book. So I can show the tech guy what i have already done and proven. IMO>

[FTodaro]

And if you are your own engine builder do you get the privilege of sealing your own engines? Some of us still build our own engines. A lot of us don't fly in to race under our builders tent and have them present to support us in every way at the track. Especially after this last weekend I really wish I could do that, and if I had unlimited funds I would gladly support your seal program. I would have had my builder seal up my STR infringed head two years ago and been happy that it was never torn down, inspected, and thought to be legal by all my competitors.

 

I suggest some middle ground. Fewer cars checked at each race. Winner and one random (sorry, don't feel too bad for you if you are winning every weekend and getting teched each weekend.). A program to check a wide variety of things. Some times it will be deep; heads, gearboxes, diffs. Sometimes it would be more superficial and easier on the competitor; shocks, the stall check you guys did, fuel, ETC. But it happens at every race not just majors weekends. Randomly draw the tech item before the weekend. Couple this with special tech deemed necessary by the regional SM director for things he may be spotting and I think you have the right balance for tech.

 

It would be really nice though if we would figure out ECU tech and get it implemented.

What we do not want to happen here is that the only people who can afford to win or podium a major is a big money team.

 

Just suggesting we explore some middle ground that is all.

 

There are always unintended consequences to everything we do.