1001 replies to this topic

[davew]

I love secret plans      . Somebody from SMAC or CRB let me know what it is and I will post it on this website.

[LarryKing]

OK Frank, how about 2 of 3 races your lap time was quicker than the #17 on the same days. How can that be defined as "getting your ass kicked"?

 

 

there are few top 1.6 cars

 

Again, what specifically makes a "top 1.6"?

[Bench Racer]

Walter, I am a 1.6 owner and I am cheating this weekend at the Farm. My intake air temp increases 40*F from the AFM to the throttle. The intake tube is insulate wrapped in effort to decrease in temp gain through intake tube.

[Danny Steyn]

FWIW, I am on the SMAC and from what I believe there is consensus that the 1.6 needs some help. Just have not found the obvious way to do it. 

[Todd Lamb]

All the same attention to detail that makes a 99 top prep. But also add constant tuning for every session/condition plus never ending dyno testing.

 

 

OK Frank, how about 2 of 3 races your lap time was quicker than the #17 on the same days. How can that be defined as "getting your ass kicked"?

 

 

Again, what specifically makes a "top 1.6"?

[Ron Alan]

 

 

I know I frequently see fast 1.6/1.8na cars at regional races.  They pass the weight and plate tech.

Affectionately known around the country as "Regional Only cars" 

 

I had one of those(rumored!)but turned out it was ok...at least what was checked 

[chris haldeman]

A top 1.6 is possible. It's just a lot of work as Todd said. Add too that the increase in cost too build as well as increased cost too maintain and there is why there are no new 1.6's being built. Short list of increased costs over a 99 up car
Diff 1500 minimum plus labor
Intake 200
Afm mods 200
Rear knuckles or spacers 200-400
Then add the almost always needed....
Factory header that's not cracked yet 100-180
And you will see that new too new a 1.6 would cost more just in hard parts.
I will add I started in a 1.6 home built and loved it!!! I am an absolute fan of the 1.6 card and the way they drive. The fun factor is considerably higher. Do they need help??? Not my call. I see them winning regularly here in Texas driven by an owner that has owned a 90,94,99 along the way and atleast 2 at the same time. Not sure what that means. I have also built some engines for customers that are 100% legal and dyno on the same dyno on the same day within 3 hp of my 99. It is a terribly hard decision for the smac and crb and one I'm glad I don't have too make. One thing for sure I am glad I can make weight in a 1.6 and currently have 2 in the shop at my disposal if needed :-)

[Todd Green]

Am I the only one who noticed that config #4 is missing from the chart?  It jumps from 3 to 5.

 

Also I disagree that the STR provided no benefit.  Not at peak, but if you look at the area under the curve it is +1-2 at every step in the midrange.  (This is also why you can't just look at single dyno numbers and should look at the curve.)

 

Also kinda surprised at the header gains...

[Todd Lamb]

Am I the only one who noticed that config #4 is missing from the chart?  It jumps from 3 to 5.

 

You did read it ALL, correct?

[Todd Green]

You did read it ALL, correct?

Um...no.   I read the descriptions above and ASSumed the descriptions below were just repeated in the graphic.  Doh, sorry.

[LarryKing]

 

All the same attention to detail that makes a 99 top prep.

 

Seems pretty subjective. I know of a lot of 1.6 cars that have done everything that is permitted, yet somehow there are no "top prep" 1.6s. Weird.

[Todd Lamb]

Seems pretty subjective. I know of a lot of 1.6 cars that have done everything that is permitted, yet somehow there are no "top prep" 1.6s. Weird.

Which "lot of" are you referring to that are top prep?

[Todd Lamb]

I love secret plans      . Somebody from SMAC or CRB let me know what it is and I will post it on this website.

Dave I thought we covered this on our secret call the other day about the 2006+ cars...oops I've said too much!

[MPR22]

A top 1.6 is possible. It's just a lot of work as Todd said. Add too that the increase in cost too build as well as increased cost too maintain and there is why there are no new 1.6's being built. Short list of increased costs over a 99 up car
Diff 1500 minimum plus labor
Intake 200
Afm mods 200
Rear knuckles or spacers 200-400
Then add the almost always needed....
Factory header that's not cracked yet 100-180
And you will see that new too new a 1.6 would cost more just in hard parts.
I will add I started in a 1.6 home built and loved it!!! I am an absolute fan of the 1.6 card and the way they drive. The fun factor is considerably higher. Do they need help??? Not my call. I see them winning regularly here in Texas driven by an owner that has owned a 90,94,99 along the way and atleast 2 at the same time. Not sure what that means. I have also built some engines for customers that are 100% legal and dyno on the same dyno on the same day within 3 hp of my 99. It is a terribly hard decision for the smac and crb and one I'm glad I don't have too make. One thing for sure I am glad I can make weight in a 1.6 and currently have 2 in the shop at my disposal if needed :-)

Hey now the Frog is mine, but we would go 1-2 at every race!

[tony senese]

I think picking and choosing one car, a few tracks etc is probably not the thing we should be concerned about.   I think what the conversation should be focused on how far off a top prep, top driven 1.6 car is off on average across all the tracks.. Then use ( very carefully) the Hp gain deltas and apply them as changes for 2016. 

 

 

I agree that picking or choosing ANY anecdotal evidence  is a concern... BUT when you say "how far off a top prep, top driven 1.6 car..." isn't that also anecdotal and totally subjective?  Who/What/Where is this magical top driven top prep 1.6?  

 

I'm just sayin....

 

I think we could vote for that car/driver at least!!!

[trimless]

Really a huge part of the fun factor with the 1.6 is the lighter weight. It makes the car so much more fun to drive than the other models.  Any rule change to add  significant weight back to the 1.6 would ruin it for sure. I would just go buy a fat ass 99.

[Jamz14]

Seems pretty subjective. I know of a lot of 1.6 cars that have done everything that is permitted, yet somehow there are no "top prep" 1.6s. Weird.

Thats because no one really follows IIDSYCYC. "Top Prep" means you throw that out the window day one.

[Jim Drago]

I agree that picking or choosing ANY anecdotal evidence  is a concern... BUT when you say "how far off a top prep, top driven 1.6 car..." isn't that also anecdotal and totally subjective?  

NO

[Jim Drago]

Thats because no one really follows IIDSYCYC. "Top Prep" means you throw that out the window day one.

I disagree with that as well. In light of the all the BS at the Runoffs last year, most have really tightened up.  My car will pass the above as will all under our tent. Anyone is welcome to look at anytime.  

[Todd Lamb]

Thats because no one really follows IIDSYCYC. "Top Prep" means you throw that out the window day one.

Top prep means you pay attention to detail, leaving no stone unturned. It has nothing to do with ignoring the rules. It means building a car with the understanding of what every part does, and how to install it properly for the best performance.

 

Also: "Just because it says you can, doesn't mean you should"

 

I haven't seen a top prep 1.6 since Saul/Bennett had his out in .... 2007? Yet I see a lot of top prep 99/VVT cars every weekend.