408 replies to this topic

[David L]

Just looked at race results from the runoffs, AS, SRF3, b-spec, no changes of positions from provisional to official results. Looks like most other classes the same except for a few without Official results, (may be running/in tech) seems to be like SM has lost control.

 

The argument that there in not as invasive tech in the other classes is invalid because just like us if there were perceived cheaters out there they would demand that something be done in tech and they would put their money on the line to prove it just like you all did. 

[lmg511]

I'm ready for sealed motors at the majors+ level. have your motor checked and sealed before the season or at a majors race. 

Any seal that is found to be tampered with would get severe penalties (fines?? and/or 1+year ban from class).

 

I don't think people at this level are BLATANTLY cheating. Hate to see people go through all the expense that it takes to compete at this level only to have merits stripped when they thought they had done it all by the book and the reputation it brings to our class. Am I being naive?? I hope not.

 

As far as regionals, wish we could discourage cheating on that level too. i think that's where the blatant stuff happens and that hurts our class' reputation just as much. I wouldn't want to enforce sealed motors at that level as it would raise the cost for newcomers. But the blatant offenses (i.e. under weight by more than 10lbs or missing restrictor pates) should come with temporary bans from the class.

 

my 2cents.

 

- Luis Goncalves

[Jim Drago]

I'm in the airport, getting ready to fly out. Many of you guys need to settle down on the cheating etc.. You have NO Clue! I had two engines and one car torn down to the ground this weekend and passed all. It would be easy for me to pile on those that were found non compliant.. First off I was in tech all weekend.. I know the infractions and the severity of them. These were non compliant but not " cheats" no one at this level wants this crap. If for a minute you think ANY other class would come through tech remotely as well as SM did/does with even 1/4 the level of scrutiny SM recieves you are truly clueless! Why don't we try concentrating on the positives for a change and promote our class instead of taking every opportunity to try and tear it down. I have nothing but respect for the drive that Goring and Cory put in. Unfortunately it looks like they were in violation of the rules. It sucks all the way around.. I don't build or sell them anything, but I can guarantee you this was not intemtional as both went with the same intentions I did, to win and to have their cars coming home in boxes. Anyone who feels this was intentional or that they hoped they could " pass it through or get away with it " is just a fool imo.
I'll have a longer post later, but the negative bs has got to stop .. If I start seeing cheaters etc posted I will delete it and most likely give you a minimum of a weeks vacation. Say what you will but be respectful of the class, the competitors and all posting here. All can be said and discussed with mutual respect.
Thanks
Jim

[MPR22]

Well if history has taught us anything I would be willing to put money on some if not all of the penalties being upheld.
 
Sorry sold my car, but your not comparing apples to apples, my car ran in regionals sure if you took a shock off of my car and dyno'ed it it might fail, it had been on there for four years, my motor 4 years, and you waterboy have seen me drive. These guys are at the top top there should be no excuse to go to this show and be found non compliant. 
 
Stiffer penalties would put a greater responsibility on the owners and more importantly the builders, for 6-7k you should get a legal motor, not one that was oh so close!!!!

I have read your posts in the past. So I call bullshit on your apples to oranges comparison. You are have been an absolutist in the past so your shock and their compression issues should be dealt with the same way.

As to the penalties. Goring is loosing about 20k in contingencies, lost his chance at the Mazda Shootouts, which he stood a good chance to win as he is an absolute wheel and young enough to be attractive to the sponsor. So that's another 75k. Tell me Davidis that enough penalty?

And yes the drivers are responsible for their cars regardless if the builder didn't provide the legal engine. Just like the CEO is responsible for everything done in the name of XYZ Corp. Believe me the drivers are paying the price. The engine builders will also as word gets out that their product didn't pass tech.

Go buy another car and race before complaining about the corruption at the highest level of amateur racing. I was there, lost to those found non compliant, I'm not calling for their heads. Shit.happens, we fix it and then we do the most important part of this, WE GO RACING AGAIN!

[Bi11]

Just curious ? Do you have to be in the grey area to be competitive ? Does everything have to be at the max. legal limit to be competitive?

[lmg511]

I agree with you Jim. Much respect to everyone that competed. It was phenomenal driving that won the race and not difference in equipment. It was great to watch and I'm proud to be in this class. When I say I would like to see sealed motors its not because I think people are cheating, its to put an end to this tech showdown that goes down afterwards and make life easier on the guys competing.

 

unbelievable to see how much talent is in this class. it was a great race! all this noise that goes on afterwards is just that. congrats to everyone that competed!

[David L]

Just curious ? Do you have to be in the grey area to be competitive ? Does everything have to be at the max. legal limit to be competitive?

YES YES YES

 

This is exactly what I am talking about. At no time did I try to take anything from anyone. I believe 100% all of these guys wanted/expected to be compliant but because our class has been allowed to evolve and the lines/limits been crossed and then moved we have this culture of being found non compliant as a no big deal it happens to everybody situation. What I believe is being lost in this is that 40 something other people have been effected. Maybe that 9th or 10th guy would have been 3rd or 4th we will never know. It needs to be reigned in. The same argument is already being made, it was a minor mistake, no advantage was gained. These may be true but they may be false.   

[David L]

I have read your posts in the past. So I call bullshit on your apples to oranges comparison. You are have been an absolutist in the past so your shock and their compression issues should be dealt with the same way.

As to the penalties. Goring is loosing about 20k in contingencies, lost his chance at the Mazda Shootouts, which he stood a good chance to win as he is an absolute wheel and young enough to be attractive to the sponsor. So that's another 75k. Tell me Davidis that enough penalty?

And yes the drivers are responsible for their cars regardless if the builder didn't provide the legal engine. Just like the CEO is responsible for everything done in the name of XYZ Corp. Believe me the drivers are paying the price. The engine builders will also as word gets out that their product didn't pass tech.

Go buy another car and race before complaining about the corruption at the highest level of amateur racing. I was there, lost to those found non compliant, I'm not calling for their heads. Shit.happens, we fix it and then we do the most important part of this, WE GO RACING AGAIN!

I never said my car would have been found compliant it might have failed for a blown out shock or any number of other issues, but I never raced in a major so my own knowledge of my car since I built it was one of compliance. If my 4 year old shock had failed I would accept any penalty. I think this is how the majority of our class feels.

 

If I pay 35000 for a car that was represented as a top flight legal car and am found non compliant I would be extremely angry.

 

But we can not keep moving the lines just because Expert engine builders keep making mistakes!  

 

I have never said that any of the drivers asked for a non compliant car in any way. 

[Blake Thompson]

I'm ready for sealed motors at the majors+ level. have your motor checked and sealed before the season or at a majors race. 

Any seal that is found to be tampered with would get severe penalties (fines?? and/or 1+year ban from class).

 

I don't think people at this level are BLATANTLY cheating. Hate to see people go through all the expense that it takes to compete at this level only to have merits stripped when they thought they had done it all by the book and the reputation it brings to our class. Am I being naive?? I hope not.

 

As far as regionals, wish we could discourage cheating on that level too. i think that's where the blatant stuff happens and that hurts our class' reputation just as much. I wouldn't want to enforce sealed motors at that level as it would raise the cost for newcomers. But the blatant offenses (i.e. under weight by more than 10lbs or missing restrictor pates) should come with temporary bans from the class.

 

my 2cents.

 

- Luis Goncalves

 

 

I've also had one of my patented changes-of-heart.

 

I am willing to bet the cost of a sealed motor than if you tore apart say the entire FE field "sealed" motors you'd find that they're far more disparate than the stuff the SM guys are fielding.  And most likely not intentionally.  There is an awful lot of scrutiny on spec Miata stuff, but we asked for it.

[FTodaro]

I would not be to hard on the drivers just yet I am sure they asked for legal stuff, let's find out what the infractions were and the story before we pass judgment.

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

I just want to say it was a great race to watch and loved watching everyone at the track going to the stands to watch our class. I don't think there was anyone left in the pits everyone there was watching and that was awesome to see. I'm usually in the car and never had the chance to witness this and it was cool. I just wish it didn't rain ten minutes before the start of the race. I think it could have been a lot diff if it was dry.

All that said it was great to see and talk to everyone in the pits and you guys drove an awesome race !!!!!

[lmg511]

I've also had one of my patented changes-of-heart.

 

I am willing to bet the cost of a sealed motor than if you tore apart say the entire FE field "sealed" motors you'd find that they're far more disparate than the stuff the SM guys are fielding.  And most likely not intentionally.  There is an awful lot of scrutiny on spec Miata stuff, but we asked for it.

 

As someone mentioned above, its just a tough penalty to be DQ'd from a first place runoff finish, so my comment was more to ensure that less people get DQ'd from being out of compliance than it was about ensuring equality. This was my second year in SM so I don't think any issues are going to be solved by me. I joined this class because of how close the racing was and I couldn't be happier. The racing is close and the talent is high. I'll shut up and go back to the garage now.

[38bfast]

Please let the process finish before anyone throws stones.

[Treyin]

Tech has official closed and Goring won the appeal.

[Clubracer6]

Tech has official closed and Goring won the appeal.

Awesome news, great outcome!

Looked like a fantastic race and so bummed to not make it! Love the new Runoffs moving track program!

[Pete Maerz]

Final results: http://cdn.growasset....pdf?1443392952
Congratulations to Jonathan Goring. Another guy deserving of a pro ride.

[TractionControl]

Not taking away from the drive that any of the racers had, but how can an engine that fails, multiple times be found ok afterwards?

[Todd Lamb]

Perhaps it wasn't measured correctly? Perhaps the procedure was wrong? Perhaps the calculations were wrong? Perhaps the measurement equipment wasn't properly calibrated?

Lots of reasons. Doesn't matter, the engine was found compliant by SCCA.

Seems like some sore losers on FB. Let the conspiracy theories begin.

[MPR22]

Well if history has taught us anything I would be willing to put money on some if not all of the penalties being upheld.
 

So how much money did you put up? Talk is cheap! You had Goring convicted and punished before his appeal was heard. Please go find somewhere else to be a negative human being.

I'm sure you will have some snappy comeback but let's face it you embarrassed yourself again and should just go back to your little hole.

[MPR22]

Congratulations too all the racers at the Runoffs this year. We all put on a great show. Congratulations to the podium, Goring, Carbonell and Balanos great drives all.