61 replies to this topic

[MPR22]

I like it the way it is. Yes, we (Mike & Chris) made the wrong choice going with rains. It could have gone the other direction. You pay your money and take your choice.

I hate to disagree with you dad, I think we made the right choice, Chris was left without a pusher and I couldn't get through the dry tire group fast enough. They were 2 wide through every turn racing, holding the wet tire crowd at bay. I would probably make the same decision again, I would just race differently.

[Tom Hampton]

As just a grunt in the world of regional racing...i like the intellectual challenge of having to make a choice. Sure there is luck involved, but reading the tea leaves is part of the sport. Always has been. I do t want somone else telling g me what tires to run. If I want to risk burning a set of rains or running slicks in the wet, that should be my choice.

Decisions of risk and expense should be left to the driver.

[Todd Lamb]

Should we do away with spec tires altogether? Being back the Hankook/Toyo/Hoosier/Goodyear/Kumho tire choices?

[Danny Steyn]

Personally, spec tire or not, the choice to race on wet or dry tires should rest with the driver. 

[Tom Sager]

We should continue to have a spec tire as that reduces the cost of buying and testing a variety of options and will prevent the tire wars from years ago that occurred in some other classes and probably still do. As for rains or dry's, I think many people trust making their own decision (in a tweener situation) rather than having it left up to a steward. A steward would be forced to make the decision a little earlier than some competitors might and the steward would probably be more cautious in that decision as he/she wouldn't want to put competitors on damp track on slicks which I believe would lead to running rains on damp or dry-ish tracks more often than necessary. As someone pointed out, that one session would likely consume an expensive set of tires.   Then I suppose you have to define what info the steward will use to make the decision.  Weather radar?  Which one?  Visual look at the track?  Corner worker opinion?  

[FTodaro]

Should we do away with spec tires altogether? Being back the Hankook/Toyo/Hoosier/Goodyear/Kumho tire choices?

Our region used to have Open Tire till last year when they revamped the majors program and the path to the runoffs, so now its mandatory spec tire.

 

Our members like run what you brong. However, i suspect you would not see the same type of contingency programs.

 

I doubt open tire would ever happen, but it would be nice if they limited it to two choices, Hoosier and Toyo that way you could get more cross participation.

[LarryKing]

 

Doesn't srf call a rain race?         

 

Not in the GCR and a "Scroogle" search came up empty so I'm guessing no.

 

 

i suspect you would not see the same type of contingency programs.

 

So what? In my experience contingency programs tend to benefit those who need them the least.

[Todd Green]

Frank - the point being there is no wrong decision if there is no choice.

Oh you'll still have a choice.  Sticker rains, lightly shaved, heavily shaved, etc. etc.

 

WRT to destroying tires.  It isn't uncommon here in the desert to have a downpour just before a race only to have the skies open up and the sun and wind have a dry racing line by the end of a race.

[MPR22]

I think the problem may be that the Hoosier H2O is such a good tire that the delta in time between it and the dry tire in marginal conditions creates hard decisions.  If we were on the Toyos for the national championship race I bet the entire grid would have been on slicks or some form of intermediate that would have been about the same speed in the dry.  

[mhiggins10]

Nobody tells Red Bull, Audi, Flying Lizard or Corvette Racing what tires to go out on.  Not sure why we would want this dictated to us- it adds to the excitement, IMO.

[Todd Lamb]

None of those teams run a spec car in a spec class. If we don't want spec racing, we should go with an open tire rule. The point of spec racing is to take equipment out of the equation as much as possible. The tires in a rain situation cause more disparity than all of the other parity items we have spent hundreds of pages debating on this forum, combined.

[Todd Lamb]

That's a lot better choice than slicks vs rains.

Oh you'll still have a choice. Sticker rains, lightly shaved, heavily shaved, etc. etc.

WRT to destroying tires. It isn't uncommon here in the desert to have a downpour just before a race only to have the skies open up and the sun and wind have a dry racing line by the end of a race.

If there was that much rain before a race, rains would be the safe bet anyway. The whole point is to eliminate the need to guess if a track would dry and/or if more rain would come. Everyone would be in the same boat, which is the point of our class.

[MPR22]

None of those teams run a spec car in a spec class. If we don't want spec racing, we should go with an open tire rule. The point of spec racing is to take equipment out of the equation as much as possible. The tires in a rain situation cause more disparity than all of the other parity items we have spent hundreds of pages debating on this forum, combined.

I like were you are going, how do we implement? At Kansas Speedway earlier this year the 4 fastest of us got together before the race and speced the tire.  We wanted to race on like equipment whatever the result.  

 

Would this be a Majors only spec or would it trickle down to the divisions.  I could see a bunch of heart ache at the division/regional level.  At Majors and beyond we want to race as close to spec as possible.  

[Danny Steyn]

Remember that there are those that don't have rain tires and are quite fine going out on dries????

[Todd Lamb]

I envision this being a majors specific thing.

Regionals yes I can understand people may not have rains or don't want to burn them up, but if you're at a majors event without rain tires, you may as well be doing a rain dance because it is all your fault it is raining.

[LarryKing]

 

The tires in a rain situation cause more disparity than all of the other parity items we have spent hundreds of pages debating on this forum, combined.          

 

Not to mention the disparity between those who can afford a new set of tires every 3-4 heat cycles versus those who must make a set last 12 or more HC.

[Todd Green]

If there was that much rain before a race, rains would be the safe bet anyway. The whole point is to eliminate the need to guess if a track would dry and/or if more rain would come. Everyone would be in the same boat, which is the point of our class.

 

I was speaking towards how you can destroy a set of rains which you questioned.  Nothing to do with parity.  Anyway, wrt parity, I also meant to add that I guess you could only allow a single set of rains for a weekend and have them stamped/dated etc.  (And some contingency rules for punctures or other damage (due to contact etc.)).  That would take all the shaving business out of the equation.  And yes I'd only envision this for Majors/Runoffs type events.

[Ron Alan]

I agree with the concept Todd and why you have opened up this discussion. Based on what I'm reading, the push back revolves around human error...and can a group of experienced racers rely on an official(who may or may not have any clue about the nuances of SM)make the decision correctly? 

 

As has also been mentioned, no doubt a decision like this when a Hoosier H2O is involved is different then a Toyo RA1.

 

How about...someone(official/group of SM drivers) very in touch with the class is appointed the first evening of a Majors event to make this call. The decision will be made and announced 15 minutes before any session(qual/race). Regardless of the decision...it puts all on equal footing. Bottom line is those very confident in wet conditions will prevail regardless of tire chosen. 

 

For regionals...eliminating the Hoosier wet as an option may help the cost argument. Not that the initial cost is much cheaper but driving RA1's on a dry line is not the end of your tires! 

[tom1977]

The only thing worse than an official telling me what tire to use would be not being allowed to use the Hoosier h2o. Hoosier needs our support, this discussion has me worried for the whole class of sm

[Jim Drago]

I like the idea of all starting on the same tire ( which would be Hoosier either way) I don't think the results would change much, but it would be a much better race in most cases and takes all the luck out of the equation. i guessed wrong at Sprints and "right" at Runoffs. probably didnt change my finishing position much in either race, but would be nice
Jim