211 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

Ok...for the record...any of you Majors podium finishers or the runoffs shave your sticker SM7's?? Unless people are really good at shaving tires to look like out of the mold SM7's, i dont remember seeing any shaved tires at Laguna Runoffs or Majors out West...

Several including myself have tried shaving the SM7's. They were undriveable. I have no idea why as the rubber is supposed to be the same all the way. But it did not work at all. All three of us in my camp have tried on SM6 and again on SM7 and it was not good.

[LarryKing]

 

They were undrinkable.

 

Did you try them on the rocks or with a twist?

[davew]

We also tried shaving Hoosier SM6 and SM7. COMPLETE WASTE OF MONEY. I can not state why, but it did not work.

 

NASA announced their Toyo deal is extended untill 2020. I asked the Hoosier guys at Daytona and they thought the SCCA contract was for 5 more years. So stop asking for the same tire, the lawyers won't allow it.

 

I spent 10 years in the tire business. There is no "industry standard" how a tire is measured. This applies to the first number (i.e. 205). Every manufacturer can decide where on the tire to measure and what size wheel to use when measuring. The second number is a percentage of the first and indicates the height of the tire as compared to the first number. Thus comparing Toyos to Hoosiers is like comparing Oranges to Tangerines.

 

dave

[Johnny D]

Has Hoosier talked to Toyo about making the RR with HOOSIER molded on the side, since they already figured out the size and compound already ?

 

Never mind, let's reinvent the wheel, maybe something good will come from it.

 

J~

[cam]

If the underlining theory is that a smaller (narrower) tire will have less traction and lead to more parity between the 1.6 and 99+, then I think the theory is flawed for the following reasons:
1) Given equal tires, set-up, and driver skill, the 1.6 typically can carry more momentum into the corner.
2) The 1.6 weak spot is its ability to accelerate out of the corners due to lack of torque under the curve.
3) The 99+ typically can carry less momentum into the corner, thus blocking the 1.6.
4) 99+ can accelerate harder out of the corner, even with its extra weight.

 

Therefore, I conclude that if a tire with less traction became the spec tire, then it will aggravate the current disparity between the models by the 99+ over slowing the 1.6 in the corners and then the 99+ will power away until the next corner.  This will result in a situation that if a 1.6 and 99+ have equal lap times, the 99+ will more often than not win the race because it can dominate the corners.

 

On a related topic, I have not seen significant ware on suspension and steering components since switching to Hoosiers.   The front hubs have always needed maintenance and replacement schedules. Steering tie rods and ball joints seem to be about the same.

[john mueller]

I didn't vote, not gonna - no dog in the fight.  I'd assume that most folks would like both organizations to be on the same tire...  NASA has extended their contract with Toyo, the original tire supplier of SM.  Thus, I expect NASA to remain on the RR's for quite sometime.  Just saying'.

[Ron Alan]

Scratch scratch scratch scratch.....

[Todd Lamb]

This was discussed on the SMAC call. There is no current 195 tire available from Hoosier. There is also no chance of changing to Toyo for SCCA until the contract expires. So I don't see the tire/size/brand changing anytime soon. This is pretty much a no go without getting Hoosier to develop a new tire ($$$).

[john mueller]

This was discussed on the SMAC call. There is no current 195 tire available from Hoosier. There is also no chance of changing to Toyo for SCCA until the contract expires. So I don't see the tire/size/brand changing anytime soon. This is pretty much a no go without getting Hoosier to develop a new tire ($$$).

 

When does that contract expire?

[Todd Lamb]

Not next year.

[Jim Drago]

This was discussed on the SMAC call. There is no current 195 tire available from Hoosier. There is also no chance of changing to Toyo for SCCA until the contract expires. So I don't see the tire/size/brand changing anytime soon. This is pretty much a no go without getting Hoosier to develop a new tire ($$$).

Also dont see a survey being answered any differently.. therefore the next contract will likely look very much like this one. Especially now that SCCA competitors are happier with the SM7 than we have been in a long time with any tire.

[MPR22]

I think i would rather race on Toyo R1s than SM7s.  Longer life, doesn't heat cycle out.

 

 However, I soon forget how track/heat cycle dependent RA1s were and we might be in the same situation with the R1s.  I have already been down the shaved path with them and it could be we start having to save tires to put some age on them for those tracks like Mid-O that like the old tires. To date I have found the tire to be very user friendly and I can go fast on them out of the box without heat cycling.  

[MPR22]

Several including myself have tried shaving the SM7's. They were undriveable. I have no idea why as the rubber is supposed to be the same all the way. But it did not work at all. All three of us in my camp have tried on SM6 and again on SM7 and it was not good.

Jim, I believe it has to do with the change in spring rate.  That stiff sidewall needs the extra rubber for its cushion.  One of the reasons i say this its like driving a car that is too low and is hitting the bumpstops at every little jostle.  It also may have to do with the need of the tread to squirm a bit to heat properly, we never took temps, we just came off track screaming " are you trying to kill me"   

[Steve Scheifler]

For such a dramatic difference the latter sounds much more likely than the former.

[FTodaro]

Jim, I believe it has to do with the change in spring rate.  That stiff sidewall needs the extra rubber for its cushion.  One of the reasons i say this its like driving a car that is too low and is hitting the bumpstops at every little jostle.  It also may have to do with the need of the tread to squirm a bit to heat properly, we never took temps, we just came off track screaming " are you trying to kill me"   

I have found that when i have swapped tires on the rim to get more ware out of them, they driver like crap also. Anyone have that experience? I have never tried to shave them so I have no comment about that.

 

I do like the tire, it would be nice to get a few more HC out of them.

[Steve Scheifler]

Flipping them on the rims reduces contact patch size until they are worn back in, by which time they are probably junk anyway. Might be OK for a casual racer who doesn't get the most of of their tires regardless, but a bad idea otherwise. Even as practice tires or whatever I wouldn't want to be mislead by how the car handled after flipping them. And if you can already see the beginnings of the death groove, might be even worse, not sure how the tire plants with those reversed.

[MPR22]

For such a dramatic difference the latter sounds much more likely than the former.

Doesn't drive like its on cold tires though, feels more like a change in suspension stiffness.  But don't disagree with your position as it seems more feasible.

[Jim Drago]

Doesn't drive like its on cold tires though, feels more like a change in suspension stiffness.  But don't disagree with your position as it seems more feasible.

It 'felt" like driving on graining tires.. But they were not grained at all.

[Danny Steyn]

SM7's are awesome. SM6's were the most expensive tire ever! Just wish the H2O's were a lot harder so they wouldnt wear out after one session. They do make everyone feel like GOD in the rain, but do we really need a 1 session rain tire. For that reason ONLY I miss the RA1's. However I really haated having to shave tires to different depths on the RA1's. RR's are not too bad either.

[chris haldeman]

We certainly do not need a one cycle rain tire!! Not sure what other options Hoosier has tho. Aside from a new tire that would be like an sm7 with grooves