211 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

SM7's are awesome. SM6's were the most expensive tire ever! Just wish the H2O's were a lot harder so they wouldnt wear out after one session. They do make everyone feel like GOD in the rain, but do we really need a 1 session rain tire. For that reason ONLY I miss the RA1's. However I really haated having to shave tires to different depths on the RA1's. RR's are not too bad either.

Hoosier has been very accommodating to the SM community, has been for years. Perhaps it would be worth while to voice our concerns and when the contract comes up for renewal we could ask for a harder compound? They may be receptive.

The reason the Hoosier rain performs as it does is it is designed to win races against other tires, it does that remarkably well, as all of us can attest to. It is an awesome rain tire.

[Mike Collins]

I'd rather spend a little more on a good rain tire and bring the car home in one piece than have a hard tire where the likelihood of an accident goes up...

[Steve Scheifler]

I'd rather spend a little more on a good rain tire and bring the car home in one piece than have a hard tire where the likelihood of an accident goes up...

The other way to look at it is that you will always take them to the limit so the "better" tire just puts you into the wall at a higher speed. But I take your point.

[Steve Scheifler]

Hoosier has been very accommodating to the SM community, has been for years. Perhaps it would be worth while to voice our concerns and when the contract comes up for renewal we could ask for a harder compound? They may be receptive.

The reason the Hoosier rain performs as it does is it is designed to win races against other tires, it does that remarkably well, as all of us can attest to. It is an awesome rain tire.

I believe that originally the SM tire was identical to the standard R5, R6 etc. Is that still true? Is there any doubt? If it is true then the same applies to it as to the rains, and makes it less likely that they would entertain creating a different tire for us. Greater volume than the rains, but worth the cost? On the other hand, quite a few people outside SM buy the SM branded tire because it costs less, so creating a "slower" tire for us might reduce that and at the same time attract new customers looking for longer life at a slight performance cost. Hard to say how it would work out.

[Tom Scheifler]

Hoosier has been very accommodating to the SM community, has been for years. Perhaps it would be worth while to voice our concerns and when the contract comes up for renewal we could ask for a harder compound? They may be receptive.

Yes. More than once I've been glad H was at the track to assist and sell. Makes sense to at least have a discussion with them.

[Keith Novak]

The other way to look at it is that you will always take them to the limit so the "better" tire just puts you into the wall at a higher speed. But I take your point.

 

I have to completely disagree there.  The better tire also has better break-away and hook-up characteristics.

 

I think the reason most people feel like a god driving new H20s is not just how fast you can go before they break loose, but also how well they handle once you do get them past the limit.  They don't break away dramatically and when new they have an impressive ability to hook up again.   After nearly crapping your pants once or twice it's awe inspiring how well they handle while sliding around.  At first at least.  Once they've worn a bit they're still grippier than an RA1 but not the same tire.

[Steve Scheifler]

I was half kidding, but only half because my brain would still be thinking that way no matter how good they are. I really have no experience with them because SM was still on Toyos when we stopped racing. So I look forward to the chance to try them and also dread the expense. What do you think is responsible for the decline in wet grip? Does it happen even if they are run only when it is really wet and the never get hot? Is it a case of knocking the edges off, and has anyone tried a very light shave to square then back up?

[Keith Novak]

I think it's from when they get too hot.  It's a really soft compound.  My educated guess is that too much heat cures and hardens the rubber effectively making it a different spring rate. 

 

If you can only run them when it's really wet, you're golden.  If it's patchy or starts drying during the session, they'll wear very quickly and they're never quite the same.  It's definitely not a squareing the tire issue.  They'll heat up and wear faster in the middle.  The problem is that there are so few full on rain days that you'll never wear out the tire before they get old, and those intermediate days will quickly turn an amazing rain tire into just a really good rain tire.

[Danny Steyn]

Doesnt matter how soft or hard the rain tire is, we are going to take it to the limit of adhesion. The harder rain tire breaks away at slower speeds, and last longer. The softer rain tire breaks away at higher speeds and only provides ONE session where it is at its optimum.

 

I destroyed two (2) sets of rain tires at the ARRC. A 1HC  set that I ran in three test sessions that was done after T1, but I didnt want to waste  anew set or rain tires on on test day. So I bought a  brand new set that I ran for three laps in the ARRC Q1 session, and put it away, but the the edges were completely gone. If all the fast guys had signed up for the CCPS I would have had to buy a 3rd set. But I ran the 2HC set the 20 lap CCCPS. Now both sets are completely worthless, even as intermediate tires. Almsot $1600 in rain tires in one weekend. The H2O is the MOST EXPENSIVE TIRE WE HAVE EVER USED - way more expensive than the SM6's but because we dont normally run in the rain every weekend you dont notice it as much.

 

So now I have to buy two more sets for the next race, just in case we have a weekend where it rains before the main event. Because, if you dont go out on new H2O's for the main event you are giving up several seconds per lap.

 

Unlike Mike Collins, I would MUCH prefer a harder compound that gave us more racing life, even if it was a much slower rain tire. What other classes do with our tire should not influence what we seek for in our rain tire. I have no doubt that SM buys more Hoosier rain tires in SCCA and NASA than all the other classes combined. 

 

HOWEVER the RA1 that is a skittish-as-hell rain tire, will last an entire season and a brand new set is only marginally faster than a year old several HC session set, even if it is a year or more old!

[tburas56]

Having done multiple tire test for different manufacturers, Hoosier, Hankook and Toyo they will tell you the same thing. The reason for the slick with no groves is because of tread squirm and diamonding of each tread block. Look at the one line in the Hoosier, rubber rolls over and diamonds.

The H20 is so soft, the tread squirm diamonds off each of the contact patches giving it less grip. The point is, if one were to shave H20s after they are run, they would have close to the same properties as new.

A shaved H20 performs really well, just try it.

[FTodaro]

Having done multiple tire test for different manufacturers, Hoosier, Hankook and Toyo they will tell you the same thing. The reason for the slick with no groves is because of tread squirm and diamonding of each tread block. Look at the one line in the Hoosier, rubber rolls over and diamonds.

The H20 is so soft, the tread squirm diamonds off each of the contact patches giving it less grip. The point is, if one were to shave H20s after they are run, they would have close to the same properties as new.

A shaved H20 performs really well, just try it.

I have a few friends who like to take their used rains an run a few dry laps on them to clean them up. would that work like tire shaving or just add to the problem?

[tburas56]

Add to the problem.

[MPR22]

The H20 will eventually break loose but it also will recover the grip much faster than the RA1.  I don't care what rain tire I run but the majority of the class would be safer and more racy on the H20.  That was not the intent of this survey.  

I have not had significant mechanical failures over the last two years, gone down quite a bit with the SM7 from the SM6.  Do i think the reduction in tire width will help, maybe a little not enough to warrant the pain of changing tires again. I would love to race Toyo RR's only but I will race anything.  The pointy end can race any tire.  What is best for the class? Cheaper would be better i assume.  So if the 195 is significantly cheaper than that is an option I would be willing to get behind.  If it is the same or -5% not really a needle mover. 

[Craig Berry]

I like the SM7, and dont know of a good reason to change anything about it. The H20, as we all know is an awesome tire, the sidewall is so soft, it gives incredible feel and grip in the wet. Personally I do think it evens the playing field, compared to advantages I thought I had with the Toyo in the rain. That being said, I do think the H20 increases the odds of bringing the car back in one pc.

[FTodaro]

If i was asked. I would prefer to stay with the current wet and dry tires. No change needed.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

If i was asked. I would prefer to stay with the current wet and dry tires. No change needed.

 

Totally AGREE!

[Johnny D]

FYI, Danny's last post was Nov 2015.

 

If somebody votes, i think it jumps up to the top of the page making it New Content to look at.

 

Then Todd posted a comment recently and started the ball rolling again.

 

There's nothing wrong with revisiting this, but I'm not sure this is a current subject looked at with SCCA or anyone.

J~

[Caveman-kwebb99]

It is not on anybody's adjenda, Hoosier is making zero changes as far as I know and we are not looking to ask them further. I am completely happy with their tires and support.

[Johnny D]

[Johnny D]

I'm not putting /195 in Franks mouth but...
 

I too think we need a tire with less grip and more HC. It could be just a coincidence but we have had allot of failures due to stress of hubs, trans sub frames. We can argue that there are several causes but IMO stress and fatigue build up over time. We are pushing the limits of this chic car. It would be nice to stay with Hoosier they have been fantastic supporter of this class, would be hard to replace that.