61 replies to this topic

[Keith Andrews]

Did not see the restart video but IMO Selin made a beginners restart mistake by being too close the pace car.

 

Beginner?

[Steve Scheifler]

Danny gave a pretty good report of the front group. looked like fun up there. Cory was saying what a great race he had with danny in the second race. congrats to my friend selinsito for a great weekend! After my debut of my 99 this weekend...I can say I am very happy to move on from the 1.6. After going from around 30th in a 70 car field in a 1.6 earlier this year... to a top 10...I was very happy. Especially when I haven't even driven a car since February. I ran with Amy mills in both STL and SM almost every time we were out on track together and had very clean, fun racing. I was so thrilled to even be running with the guys and gals up near the front. I stayed on charbs bumper for most of the STL race which was a big accomplishment for me....

No interest in starting another parity debate here, but how would you rate the % of meaningful performance prep of your 1.6 compared to the '99? And how/where do you think you were faster? Do you have data for both?

[High Chair]

No interest in starting another parity debate here, but how would you rate the % of meaningful performance prep of your 1.6 compared to the '99? And how/where do you think you were faster? Do you have data for both?

Steve I will chime in only because I know the history of the car. The 1.6 that John had was at one time a front running 1.6 that had won both National and regional races. Drivers that have done very well in that car include myself, Labounty, Pombo, Andrew Von C, The Cuban missile, etc. The car had an engine from my 1.6 that started life out as a new crate engine before being sent out to get the pro-engine treatment. On the dyno the car was very good (for a 1.6) and I would say when John was driving it the prep level was about 90% as he didn't take it to the dyno before each race to re-tune the car which is needed. However, Over time the 99s-01s got faster and faster and the poor 1.6 just could not keep up anymore regardless of who was in it. John bought the 1.6 as a first car to learn to drive  which worked out great. The 99 he drove this weekend is his new car and also has one of my engines in it. The car is completely legal (as was the 1.6) and John was more competitive right out of the box in the 99 than he ever was in the 1.6. 

[John Wilding]

No interest in starting another parity debate here, but how would you rate the % of meaningful performance prep of your 1.6 compared to the '99? And how/where do you think you were faster? Do you have data for both?

 

Being a 1.6 guy that is very envious of the 2nd gen cars I follow any 1.6 guy and their transitions to the newer cars pretty closely to see if the results change. John and I spoke a lot over the weekend and he said one of the biggest differences was the ease of driving the car, he said he almost felt like he could drive the car at a consistent pace that wasn't overly on the edge, but his times were still faster than the 1.6. 

 

He drove well and his car looked solid out there. It was great to see him so far up on the grid on the 2nd race. 

 

Congrats also to Danny and Selin on the victories, great driving guys!

[Todd Lamb]

Winner at Majors in Jan ran 1:34's

Winner at Turkey Trot ran 1:35's

Davidson at Majors in Jan ran 1:41's (1.6?)

Davidson at Turkey Trot ran 1:37's (99?)

 

What exactly data are we getting from this information that leads to a parity issue? Is the conclusion that the 1.6 is 4 seconds off the pace with the same driver? Or is it that the 99 is still 3 seconds off the pace? Let's be clear that we aren't comparing apples to apples, and finishing position at the two events is certainly not reflective of parity given the vastly different depth of the talent pool at the two events.

[Jim Drago]

Winner at Majors in Jan ran 1:34's
Winner at Turkey Trot ran 1:35's
Davidson at Majors in Jan ran 1:41's (1.6?)
Davidson at Turkey Trot ran 1:37's (99?)
 
What exactly data are we getting from this information that leads to a parity issue? Is the conclusion that the 1.6 is 4 seconds off the pace with the same driver? Or is it that the 99 is still 3 seconds off the pace? Let's be clear that we aren't comparing apples to apples, and finishing position at the two events is certainly not reflective of parity given the vastly different depth of the talent pool at the two events.

Great, I miss the race last year and now I am a minute off the pace
Jim

[Todd Lamb]

Ah damn....it got me.....kinda like running 1:43's at Road America!

[LarryKing]

 

What exactly data are we getting from this information that leads to a parity issue?

 

Let me adjust that a bit...

 

Winner at Majors in Jan ran 1:34's vs. Davidson in 1.6 at Majors in Jan ran 1:41's  -  7 sec delta

 

Winner at Turkey Trot ran 1:35's vs. Davidson in '99 at Turkey Trot ran 1:37's  -  2 sec delta

[Jim Drago]

Let me adjust that a bit...
 
Winner at Majors in Jan ran 1:34's vs. Davidson in 1.6 at Majors in Jan ran 1:41's  -  7 sec delta
 
Winner at Turkey Trot ran 1:35's vs. Davidson in '99 at Turkey Trot ran 1:37's  -  2 sec delta

There we officially have some data! The 1.6 is 5 seconds off the pace! I am sending my letter now for a turbo charger

[LarryKing]

I know Jim, it's all a big joke ain't it.

[MPR22]

I know Jim, it's all a big joke ain't it.

The data is garbage.  No top level driver would be 4 seconds off pace on same track and similar condition even down 10hp.  Find some other data to prove your point.  

[davew]

DATA, we don't need no stinkin' data. We have rumors, innuendos and personal opinions. What more could you want?

 

Use your best Godfather mafia voice when reading 

[Jim Drago]

I know Jim, it's all a big joke ain't it.

It is when anyone can conclude that any version car is off 5 seconds in any direction.. hey look another parity thread

[LarryKing]

1. Who said I had a point?

2. It's Lamb's garbage data, not mine

3. It seemed logical to compare times from the same event, from a temperature, track condition standpoint, no?

4. A Mexican accent would be appropriate when paraphrasing "don't need no stinking..." (Source: The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, B. Traven, 1927)

[Steve Scheifler]

I knew this would digress. Now people are making disparaging remarks and disputing data that hasn't actually been claimed as meaning anything in particular. Congratulations on being proactive guys. If you're through, some of us would like to continue with intelligent discussion. Thank you to those who have tried so far.

[MPR22]

I knew this would digress. Now people are making disparaging remarks and disputing data that hasn't actually been claimed as meaning anything in particular. Congratulations on being proactive guys. If you're through, some of us would like to continue with intelligent discussion. Thank you to those who have tried so far.

what would you like to argue about if not parity.  

 

 

in jest all in jest.  

[FTodaro]

what would you like to argue about if not parity.  

 

 

in jest all in jest.  

I don't know but lets find something.

 

People who live in Tx are slower and like Donald Trump.

[Jason J Ball]

It would be important to Parity where he was faster. 4 Seconds Same guy, same track, different car??? HP, ease of driving, being able to stay in the draft. I venture to guess he was carrying same/similar speed in most turns (we are creatures of habit, they are very hard to break). I bet he was able to stay on the draft on the back straight which is good for a couple seconds??? HP isn't the easy answer, but it certainly helps to have it.

[MPR22]

I don't know but lets find something.

 

People who live in Tx are slower and like Donald Trump. 

Many of them are from Ohio. 

 

http://www.community...ation-patterns/

[Steve Scheifler]

NOBODY has claimed a 4-5 second difference between the cars due to parity issues. How MANY times have we been told that switching from NA to NB will not suddenly make someone faster, and even that they may be slower at first as they adjust? Well, here we have exactly the opposite so why wouldn't we dig a little deeper, try to weed out the variables and maybe even learn something?

So this IS a worthwhile case study and I tried to do the appropriate thing by seeking more details that might help explain it. If we know more about the cars, the driver and the conditions then we can probably understand much of the difference. I am most interested in John's comments about hanging with certain cars, and to look at the number of laps he did within a small margin of his best. Right now this is all fresh in John's mind and with relatively well known cars so I am keenly interested in what he has to say, if the trolls don't intimidate him.