166 replies to this topic

[Dave D.]

Danny,

    Where on track did the crash occur? Which curbing did the launch?  We(NASA  Northeast) will be back there in Aug for a pre-Championships test and tune event.

[Danny Steyn]

Danny,

    Where on track did the crash occur? Which curbing did the launch?  We(NASA  Northeast) will be back there in Aug for a pre-Championships test and tune event.

 

Dave, as you come up the hill from T2 and make your way left through the esses, on the far right of the track, in an area allowed for runoff, there is a 6" tarmac curb.

 

Leland is a true gentleman, and very graciously allowed me to post the video of the incident in order that we might all learn from it and also make improvements to the track. At 1:11 in the slow motion segment you can clearly see the curb that launches him. had his car been lighter, or less compliant suspension, it is absolutely feasible that he could have cleared the ARMCO and land in amongst the spectators. 

 

[Dave D.]

After many laps there, I have never noticed that curbing!!

[Tyler Kicera]

What a weekend!  I'm thinking I may have just set a record today by winning a Majors race on 10 heat cycle tires (excluding rovals)

 

The Track - The pavement is incredibly smooth and in turn very easy on tire wear.  There is SOOOO much grip that it became clear on the test day when I scuffed tires and went 3/4 of a second slower that fresh rubber was not the way to go.  With so many high compression corners, the car binds up too much from mid corner off and we just don't have enough horsepower to overcome the grip.  

 

Practice/Qual - Conditions were optimal Friday morning during practice and I was able to lay down a 2:14.7 by myself.  There was also a bit of a tail wind down the back straight in that session which turned into a headwind for the rest of the weekend.  Given the heat and wind direction I couldn't get back into the 14's after that.  

Race 1 - Ralle, staring beside me on the front row in his 1.6, missed the 2-3 shift on the start and fell back a number of spots.  I was immediately able to break away started clicking off very consistent lap times.  A few laps later, in my mirror, I could see Ralle had recovered and was battling Sellin for second.  This allowed me to gap them even more.  Unfortunately the race had to end under full course yellow.  

 

Race 2 - We took the green flag and my battle with the handling on my car started in the very first turn.  I bobbled and chased the car onto the exit curbing a bit allowing 3-4 cars to run up my inside.  Henderson picked me up in the esses and I got back to third by the bus stop.  I took second back under braking in the laces and got a killer run through the toe to pull on Sellin and retake the lead under braking in the heel.  I could tell right away my car felt off from every other session.  It felt like something on my right rear had broken because I was snapping loose in the bus stop, laces, and turn 10 - thinking it was tires but we're going to dig deeper.    Despite the poor handling, I started pulling Sellin until a full course yellow came out a few laps into the race.  We went back to green and he'd exit the bus stop on my bumper every lap.  I'd pull him from the toe all the way through turn 1 and get just far enough ahead that the he couldn't suck up to me before the bus stop.  Finally there was a lap where we were locked together exiting turn 1.  He made a move entering the bus stop and the roles were reversed.  He would pull me through the bus stop and I'd spend until the start/finish line catching him again.  I saw Elivan tracking us down and figured we'd be able to maintain that gap working together with me pushing.  On the second to last lap I noticed Elivan was getting close.  Entering the last lap the gap between me, Sellin, and Elivan was an equal 3-4 car lengths.  Exiting turn 1 I backed up to Elivan and locked together we blew past Sellin at the top of the esses.  Elivan bobbled exiting the bus stop and allowed me to pull a gap on both of them.  At that point I realized I just needed to be clean for a few more corners.  The timing and strategy worked in my favor today which could just as easily have not.  No doubt that Elivan was the car(tires) to beat today and I certainly owe him one for working with me on the last lap.  

 

Final Thoughts - I played roulette with tires and almost lost.  I knew at the end of the second lap, once tire temps were up, that I was going to have my hands full for the entire race and it wasn't going to be easy.  I sure hope the IMSA and NASCAR guys don't tear up the surface too badly.  I would hate to see any sealer get put down on this track (defeats the purpose of the porous top coat).  I cannot wait to get back there in September for the NASA champs!!!

[Danny Steyn]

Tyler, was fun watching you and Selin duke it out until Elivan caught you guys. Great strategic move on the last lap!
 

[Tyler Kicera]

Tyler, was fun watching you and Selin duke it out until Elivan caught you guys. Great strategic move on the last lap!
 

Thanks Danny!  Again, absolutely hated to not have you in the race today.  Strategy was about my only play...I certainly lost the handle on my car.  

 

Everyone, my live stream can be played back here.  My car actually doesn't look too unsettled in this video but I'll be uploading my drivers-eye cam later this week which should be entertaining.  

[Danny Steyn]

After many laps there, I have never noticed that curbing!!

Me neither, and I Doubt that anyone foresaw a car heading their at speed and becoming airborne. Took them almost 3 hours to repair the ARMCO.

Having watched a lot of NASCAR over the years, it's been interesting to see where they have had to install Safety Barrier, sometimes only after a car took a wild ride to an unexpected section of the wall. Also INDY CAR's understanding of parts being grabbed and ripped off by safety fence and the massive deceleration caused by them

[Jim Drago]

That video is scary. One of the reasons that I hate the multi class racing. I have said to others many times before, I don't like racing STL less being in a STL car. I think at sometimes it isn't even worse for SM front runners running their SM cars in STL as we aren't used to looking back etc. I was very frustrated at Watkins racing my STL Miata as my car "looked" like a SM to many in their mirrors and the closing rate wa crazy.

It looked in the video that Leland was moving right for the passing car and didn't expect to be passed on both sides. Not sure I would have expected it either. Just a terrible situation all around. I had no idea this was as bad as it was.

Prayers for Leland and his family.

[Danny Steyn]

That video is scary. One of the reasons that I hate the multi class racing. I have said to others many times before, I don't like racing STL less being in a STL car. I think at sometimes it isn't even worse for SM front runners running their SM cars in STL as we aren't used to looking back etc. I was very frustrated at Watkins racing my STL Miata as my car "looked" like a SM to many in their mirrors and the closing rate wa crazy.

Jim, we are spoiled in SM and SRF, where we can drive mm off the bumper in front if any of the top 15 drivers and have TOTAL confidence in what they are going to do. This is most definitely not the case in muticlass racing (nothing to do with the video).

My initial incentive in purchasing a full on STL car was to get out of the kill zone where we Spec Miata drivers often find ourselves mired with fast straight line cars that park in the corners and are often unpredictable. While the new STL car now allows me to run near the front in STL, the unanticipated consequence is that I am now mired in amongst even more unpredictable T2 drivers in Vettes, Mustangs etc.

Some of the multi-class close shaves the past two weekends at Road America and Watkins Glen have also given me pause to reconsider. When I get time I will put together an edited highlight reel of what I experienced

[Jim Drago]

Jim, we are spoiled in SM and SRF, where we can drive mm off the bumper in front if any of the top 15 drivers and have TOTAL confidence in what they are going to do. This is most definitely not the case in muticlass racing (nothing to do with the video).

My initial incentive in purchasing a full on STL car was to get out of the kill zone where we Spec Miata drivers often find ourselves mired with fast straight line cars that park in the corners and are often unpredictable. While the new STL car now allows me to run near the front in STL, the unanticipated consequence is that I am now mired in amongst even more unpredictable T2 drivers in Vettes, Mustangs etc.

Some of the multi-class close shaves the past two weekends at Road America and Watkins Glen have also given me pause to reconsider. When I get time I will put together an edited highlight reel of what I experienced

I experienced many of the same scenarios with my STL car.. My thinking was always I would rather be the windshield than the bug.  Not as many issues with the faster cars at that point though. I went the other way with the T4 car.. But I have not raced in many crowded fields.  I just did the bare minimun to qualify. 

This problem is not going away, the speed and talent differentials ( not specific to this video BTW) are a REAL problem. This is a recipe for disaster IMO. Why we see more SM carnage in STL than we see in SM IMO. To your comment about SM and SRF being spoiled.. Exactly! Many, myself including are looking for SM in a faster class or maybe just a little different. After dipping in the waters of a ffew different classes, nothing has come close. We are in the best class IMO.

[Jim Drago]

Danny

Did the car land on its wheels or roll?

[Jim Drago]

On Sm/STL crossover...

Looking at it from STL car or faster car perspective as a friend who races in the other car classes rightfully pointed out to me by text..

 

(Not commentary towards video)

We also should realize that many who cross with Sm are looking for more track time and are not as experienced as many front rnners in Sm, they are often Very unpredictable.  They often race cars regardless of the class designation which drives most crazy. We ( SM) are the cars ccrossing over into their race, we need to be very aware of the speed differentials.  

 

Also many of these cars weigh 3200 lbs plus and are way faster.. We are spoiled with cars that we can navigate with pin point accuracy for the most part.. Not so easy with a car that weighs 3500 lbs traveling 50 mph faster.   These cars simply dont handle as our Sm cars do, yet we ( myself included) expect them too. Some FWd, some heavy RWD etc. I had minor contact with a car in a T class at COTA, a friend who is a good driver no less. I asked him wth he was doing way out there? His answer caught me off guard, but made sense.. If I could get the car there I would.  Physics takes over at some point and we do need to realize we have probably the best handling cars of any race we are in.

 

Jim

[DrDomm]

I hate running STL in my SM, but did it just to get track time.

 

I don't know Leland, but know the people at Flatout.  I hope he recovers quickly and completely.

 

I felt the whole weekend had too many incidents in SM/STL.  Racing there for the 1st time since my significant contact with the armco in 2014, I was a bit timid and conservative.  Still, I was nearly taken out 3-4 times by overly aggressive driving back in the pack.  If I can figure out a way to efficiently edit some of the video, I'll post it.

 

Considering the gravity of Leland's accident, it's very tough to post opinions on how those types of incidents can be avoided.

 

(And why is there a launching pad before that armco!!!?)

[LarryKing]

"It looked in the video that Leland was moving right for the passing car and didn't expect to be passed on both sides. Not sure I would have expected it either."

∆ this

[tLinder]

Lelend is in good spirits, but has 9 bone breaks & fractures, including pelvis & ribs & collarbone.
 

 

Definitely upsetting to hear about anyone getting injured.  Accidents, mechanical failures, etc., will occur and it’s wise to learn what we can from them.  From the injuries, makes me wonder about the seat / harness type and its mounting, installation etc., can anything be improved / learned?   

 

Best wishes to Leland on his recovery 

[DrDomm]

Oh, here's another one from STL...

 

https://youtu.be/Bwqp5lqzUko

[FTodaro]

Just as a general statement. We have way to much contact in Club racing, some, by accident, some by inattention, and some by aggressive driving. Club racing can be done with out contact. but i fear some people just think the risk is worth the reward, not sure there is a reward, all i know is we just seam to have more carnage lately. I for one am tired of fixing my car. Some of this i have to put on me but clearly not in all instances.

 

I personally think we have to start calling out, in the form of protest the clearly over the top stuff. Not making any comment on the current situation, i have not even looked at video this is just general comments.

 

Edit, Regarding the multi class racing, a few years ago, I did all the upgrades (manual rack) so i could run STL for practice, but since then have elected NOT to race STL, Maybe we are spoiled in SM (majors) there is still multi class racing in some regional SCCA events and in all NASA events, every time i come off track in a multi class race i ask myself why i do it.

[Jim Drago]

"It looked in the video that Leland was moving right for the passing car and didn't expect to be passed on both sides. Not sure I would have expected it either."

∆ this

 Three wide there for experienced and expecting drivers is not an easy task.

 

BTW, good one on parity poke, you got us there!   

[mhiggins10]

I experienced many of the same scenarios with my STL car.. My thinking was always I would rather be the windshield than the bug.  Not as many issues with the faster cars at that point though. I went the other way with the T4 car.. But I have not raced in many crowded fields.  I just did the bare minimun to qualify. 

This problem is not going away, the speed and talent differentials ( not specific to this video BTW) are a REAL problem. This is a recipe for disaster IMO. Why we see more SM carnage in STL than we see in SM IMO. To your comment about SM and SRF being spoiled.. Exactly! Many, myself including are looking for SM in a faster class or maybe just a little different. After dipping in the waters of a ffew different classes, nothing has come close. We are in the best class IMO.

 

I would guess it's the same at all levels, sadly.  How many prototypes were balled up my gentlemen drivers at Le Mans in the past few years?  It was far better this year, but ask Anthony Davidson or Mike Rockenfeller how they feel about privateers in Ferraris and you'll likely hear the same sentiment.  They seem to have gotten better in the pros, whether by luck or intervention, I don't know.

 

I also don't know Leland, but will be pulling for a quick recovery.  That's a scary crash.

[Amy M]

My weekend was pretty much a downward spiral after SM practice (did fairly well).

 

STL: Never again in a SM car.  Someone remind of that if I am ever tempted again...

 

My $.02 - The Glen is my favorite track and I had my first race win there.  However, folks need to remember that there are WALLS instead of runoff surrounding this track.  It is a track that you need to be extra careful on, especially when passing.   There was way too much carnage this weekend (in most of the race groups).   A lot of dumb mistakes and over driving.

 

After my car was pieced back together into fairly decent shape again I had a great start in Sunday's SM race only to have someone hit me (again).  Working on video.  I'm tired of being a pinball to drivers who are overly aggressive and not paying attention to what is going on around them.  (Use your mirrors people).  The NASA drivers did a much better job last weekend at NJMP with general track awareness, not a single scratch on my car.  I'm not impressed by this weekend's "Majors" drivers, or at least many of them.

 

Ok, rant over.  I'm still looking forward to the NASA championships at the Glen.  It is a fantastic track.

 

Kudos to Tyler Kicera who had a fantastic weekend!