43 replies to this topic

[MotoFusi]

Planning a new build. Wondering which belts do you use? 5 or 6 point? Are you happy?

[davew]

The best belts available, IMHO, are from SafeCraft. USA made right in Chicago. Without a doubt the best hardware I have ever seen. Super easy to adjust. Expensive, yes. But even I will pay the extra for something this much better.

 

Yes, I sell them, but I also sell Ultrashield, Racequip, simpson, Scroth, etc. I have everything available and pick the Safecraft

 

Dave

[38bfast]

What Dave said. Only thing we use

[mhiggins10]

I use Crow harnesses- not expensive, seem to work pretty well, and they will re-web them for you when they expire.  

[Michael Novak]

One more for the Safecraft--  Worth the money....

[Todd Green]

Very happy with Schroth Profi II-6 HANS.  I'd be curious as to the advantages of Safecraft (never used them.).   We have OMP (don't know the exact model) in our other car and I hate those belts with a passion.  The shoulder harnesses require you to "pry" the latches open (i.e. push up and down) to release the tension.  Most belts I've used, you can just pull up a bit and then shrug your shoulders.  Of course in an emergency you're going to just release the cam, but this is more for driver changes in enduros.  If you are talking comfort and ease of use versus a small price difference, belts are not the place to be frugal IMO.

 

You'll probably also want to look at if you want pull up or pull down for the lap belt adjusters.  Pull up works best for me and my seat (RaceTech).

[davew]

What makes the safecraft so nice is the buckle/latch/adjuster mechanisms. The majority of the less expensive belts all use the same hardware. The Safecraft is totally different. Shoulder adjuster work better than anything else I have used. The cam lock buckle works easy and stay secure. But the best part is the lap belt adjusters. These are the only camlock style belts that I have found that have the buckle and adjuster as one piece. There may be others that I am not aware of. On other belts, you have the buckle-tang, then a few inches of webbing, then the adjuster, then webbing down to the eyelet. This puts the adjuster at your hip. By having a one piece buckle/adjuster, the adjuster is easy to get tighter. Much better than pull up belts.

 

If you or any co-drivers will ALWAYS be using a HANS, get the 2" shoulder belts. If you ever see the possibility of someone driveing without a HANS, then you need 3" shoulders. Do not drive 2" shoulders without a HANS.

 

2" lap belts are legal for SCCA, don't know about NASA. They are definately more comfortable and studies have shown better for the driver in a crash. They tend to stay flat rather than bunch like the 3" wide laps do.

 

Most belt companys offer a free reweb service, including Safecraft.

 

Company is owned by Charles Espenlaub (sp) the IMSA driver.

 

Dave

[Jim Drago]

Planning a new build. Wondering which belts do you use? 5 or 6 point? Are you happy?

Safecraft best choice

Scroth hans next best.. I actually have both right now in my cars

[Ron Alan]

Another Safecraft vote! I have Schroth in 2 cars as well...fine for sprint. But the Safecraft are far superior in how the adjust and a much better endurance belt...my 25HR drivers made me swap between cars so they would have these in their car.

 

I actually bought these from another racer not realizing they were SFI and going to expire in 6 months(at 2 years old...this was a year ago). I was disappointing to say the least until he told me the original price included a free re-web...so I sent them back. Sure enough Charles did as promised and I got a new set back...which with the new rule change are good for 5 years now! (I think?) 

[Rob Burgoon]

FWIW, 3" shoulders work great with hans as well.  I've had both and both are great provided your openings and routing can take the extra width of the 3".

[davew]

If you play the calander right, you can get 6 years. All SFI belts expire on December 31, 5 years after manufacture. So belts built in Jan 2017 are good until December 2012. You get 17,18,19, 20, 21 and 22. Yet the belts built only a few days earlier in December of 2016 will expire in December of 2021. A year earlier! Play the game for the reweb and you can get 12 years out of a set of belts. $460 over 12 years is only $38.34 per year.

 

Unless someone really wants them, I never sell belts the end of the year. I wait till january

 

Dave

[Ron Alan]

^^^ Was it SFI or FIA that were only 2 years originally?

[Brandon]

SFI

[MotoFusi]

Thanks for the input. I've always used Bell or Pyrotect (former Bell company) Hardware makes it hard to get the lap belt tight in a Miata. I have always used a 5 point and the current car was already set up for 5 point. Anyone using 6? Feedback?

 

NASA rules do not speak to lap belt width.

[Tom Hampton]

I use a Crow 6-point, formula style, with 2" shoulder harnesses. I'm very happy with it. I find the formula style much more comfortable, and secure than the sedan style (scissor or T style).  I may switch to a 2" lap belt next year, as its difficult to get the 3" fully snug---as documented that's critical to minimize risk of lumbar fracture.

As mentioned above Crow will re-web for a very reasonable fee.  When I got mine rewebbed I even got pull-up adjusters for the lap belt for a modest increase.

Note SFI only certifies for 2 years. However, SCCA has chosen to ignore the SFI recommendation and allow belts to remain in use for 3 years AFTER the SFI expiration. NASA does not agree with the SCCA and SFI belts must be recertified every two years if you get a tech sticker from them.

The SFI contention is that there is a WEALTH of evidence (decades of studies by the USG for Nylon and Polyester webbing) to support the claim that the belts cannot be GUARANTEED to be strong enough beyond the 2 year service life. That is based on worst case heat/UV/water exposure. They do acknowledge that belts that are kept in cool, dry, conditions out of sunlight may last longer....but, how do you know. NO ONE has done the testing to validate any claim other than 2 years.  How hot/how often?  How many times can they get wet before they degrade?  Number of hours of UV exposure (through a windshield? direct sunlight?)? etc.... What about subtle combinations of effects?  How much is too much, how much is negligible?  --- NO ONE KNOWS. 

According to their Belt expert (can't recall his name, I'll try and find the link to the 45 minute video presentation) there is ZERO data to support any certification period beyond 2-years. when he worked for FIA, they had ZERO data for their 5 year recert period.

YMMV, of course, but belt failure is one of the worst things that can happen in a crash.

[Cnj]

I've driven with a huge range of belts. I like Schroth Enduro belts. https://www.schrothr...s/profi-ii#2641

I would only use 2" lap belts. The studies are clear on the added safety due to the strength of your hip bone.
I would only use 2" shoulder belts with a HANS.
I personally always wonder about the wisdom of a 5 point - you know - the point of pressure when things go wrong.... So I use 6 point harnesses.

The Safecraft is very good. Essentially the same design approach as the Schorth Enduro (adjuster right at the cam). One race with the adjuster and buckle in one piece (no fishing around for the damn belt ends to tighten it down) and you will never go back. Some people tell me the Safecraft adjusters hold tension better than the Schroth. Maybe. I have an OCD habit of tightening my belts every main straight anyway - almost to suffocation - so I don't know if this is true.

I passionately hate cheap belts with a snap hook, stiff material and lap pull downs with the tensioner buried in the seat. The difference between junk belts and great belts is roughly the cost of one tire. Spend the money.

Finally make sure the harness is mounted correctly. I've seen cars where the belt came loose, where the shoulder belts would cause compression injury in a roll over, where the groin strap was mounted forward of the seat to the point that a head on accident could easily cause internal injuries due to the driver submarining. And where people have bought used belts with no idea of whether the belts have been in accidents (and are thus stretched and dangerous). The list goes on.

Good luck in the build.

CNJ

[Mark McCallister]

I'm on my second set of Schroth Enduro belts, 100% happy with them.  I'd be equally happy with Safecraft.  When I'm watching top-tier professional racing on TV or in person I'm always trying to figure out what the preponderance of teams with large budgets are choosing for their safety gear - I want the same safety gear that guys with cars 50mph+ faster are using, as much as possible (never got anywhere with my carbon fiber Miata tub plan...). 

[Todd Green]

I personally always wonder about the wisdom of a 5 point - you know - the point of pressure when things go wrong... . So I use 6 point harnesses.

The sub straps are not supposed to be load bearing.  Their purpose is to keep the lap belts from riding up past your pelvis and you "submarining" down the seat.  That being said, I agree with you 100% and have no idea why someone would want to use a 5-point.

 

 

The SFI contention is that there is a WEALTH of evidence (decades of studies by the USG for Nylon and Polyester webbing) to support the claim that the belts cannot be GUARANTEED to be strong enough beyond the 2 year service life.

 

This brings up the obvious question of what is different between racing belts and standard automotive belts that are in zillions of cars/accidents that are much older than 2 years and see way more exposure to sun, cold, coffee spills, hamburger grease, etc. than what our cars see, yet you don't hear about failures.  From 5 seconds of searching it seems that SFI belts use more nylon than polyester and being a rock climber, I'm all too aware of what the sun does to nylon.  Nothing scarier than rappelling from an anchor made from faded, sun-baked "tat".

[CARacer]

We have OMP (don't know the exact model) in our other car and I hate those belts with a passion.  The shoulder harnesses require you to "pry" the latches open (i.e. push up and down) to release the tension.  

+1. Another dissatisfied OMP harness user here. Both the cam lock and the shoulder adjusters were infuriatingly stiff and recalcitrant for a long time. Only after a few years of being worn in has the cam lock started to work ok. I don't have issues loosening the shoulder belts, but they are hard to tighten. Like the cam lock, things have to be at the perfect angle or nothing wants to budge.

 

FWIW, 3" shoulders work great with hans as well.  I've had both and both are great provided your openings and routing can take the extra width of the 3".

+1. I used 3" shoulder belts with a HANS for a couple years. Didn't test it in an accident, but had no issues in normal use.

[wheel]

The rules are a minimum and you should make your own decisions.  You are free to replace your SFI belts after every race, if you want to.  If they are never exposed to sun or rain, you may want to replace them after five seasons.  As always, the person who does the annual on your car can require you to replace any belts that are in poor condition, no matter what the date or certification. (SFI or FIA)

 

I have always used 3", but I am going to the 2" when mine expire.