422 replies to this topic

[OrangeCrush86]

Is there any precedence for disassemling the CVs? I have not been around that long. Is this routine at the national level?

[William Keeling]

Is there any precedence for disassemling the CVs? I have not been around that long. Is this routine at the national level?

My guess is who ever has the brand new from Mazda axles might be the one who tips off tech -- but just a guess

[Steve Scheifler]

My guess is who ever has the brand new from Mazda axles might be the one who tips off tech -- but just a guess

[Richard Astacio]

How come none of the top prep shop guys have given their opinion on the axle??? Where is Mazda on this? 

 

Also perhaps Nasa should of warned drivers about the axels if they were going to bust balls about the axles...Scca last year during the INDY runoffs warned everyone early in qualifying that they were going to check bump stops and DQ drivers if it did not have the OEM bumps stops.... I would say more than a dozen drivers change thier bumps stops that afternoon at INDY. 

[Johnny D]

My guess is who ever has the brand new from Mazda axles might be the one who tips off tech -- but just a guess

 

If you/anyone can produce it, you'll get whomever off the hook.

"I got this from X, brand new/reman,  Stock miata part, I didn't modify it, here it is. Call them and you'll see"

 

I won't hold my breath though.

 

J~

[Steve Scheifler]

I think he meant, the guy in an otherwise no expense spared car with nice new legit axles might have tipped the scales. Not that anyone would actually do such a thing.

[Johnny D]

No, No, No, tyler keeps saying he gets them all day long and twice on Sunday. Has to be so, has to be legal, NASA has to be mistaken, has too.

 

Someone's going to post something here any minute now.

Just wait.

You'll see.

 

J~

[Steve Scheifler]

Huh?? Your post above quotes Willie K., not tyler. Reread that, the meaning is pretty clear.

As to your point, on SMMD I already cornered one guy with this claim who hadn’t understood that these were all outer joints. All the ones he checked were from inner joints which are different.

[Johnny D]

Ok, so you can get new parts from Mazda like that, fine, post them and plead your case.

Who all was in tech? NASA...Mazda??..Toyo?..then to a 3rd party.

I’m open to the possible but from Missouri.

I posted Tyler because he’s been defending too.

J~

[FTodaro]

If the above can be verified to be true on outer joints then it seems reasonable to forget the whole thing and move on. NASA has certainly been attempting to find common aftermarket parts which fit that description as I suspect it would be much better for them all around. If I were one of the DQs I might be drop-shipping axles from a variety of reman brands.

Then if that is proven to be true, i go back to my position that it is legal if an aftermarket option is legal. Modification would be irrelevant without an accompanying standard to be followed as you can not prove/disprove what is meant by substantially similar. Does that term mean size of the shaft, size of the splined shaft, size of ball bearings, What exactly?  Again this dispute is not fairly resolved in the tech shed.

 

I am not trying to defend the practice of people modifying parts or suggesting that we should turn a blind eye to it, but I am saying before you take away a win like this with a DQ, you better have solid backing to do it. This is different than head gate or upper control arm gate, IMO. The rules need to be addressed first before you issue the DQ.

[Bench Racer]

How come none of the top prep shop guys have given their opinion on the axle??? Where is Mazda on this? 

 

Also perhaps Nasa should of warned drivers about the axels if they were going to bust balls about the axles...Scca last year during the INDY runoffs warned everyone early in qualifying that they were going to check bump stops and DQ drivers if it did not have the OEM bumps stops.... I would say more than a dozen drivers change thier bumps stops that afternoon at INDY. 

Richard, at Laguna Seca it was known the top finishing cars would have their heads protested. Do you remember how many cars received a DQ?

 

Frank, I'm not going to continue posting the NASA parts rule, your a lawyer correct, go read the rule and quit using words which are not within the NASA rule.

[Steve Scheifler]

Bench, the steps to resolve have been posted more than once and include looking at OEM and remans then leaving room for judgement and discretion. That’s exactly what Frank is describing. And Frank and I are on the same page under the conditions drscribed. If they are at all common in aftermarket I am confident that the DQs will be retracted. Even if none are found I think there is room for a judgement call that it’s all too murky to cost anyone their race, assessing a lighter penalty for violating the overriding golden rule of SM and causing this shit storm, but no positions or DQ. Given what we know and what else I’ve heard, the latter is the worst I’d do.

Then the tough question of what to do with it going forward and how that will impact everyone else. Should I quick open my reman shop and sell a few hundred sets? I guess even sooner, should SCCA weigh in before the Runoffs or just leave it for now because anyone with sense will have swapped theirs beforehand? Tic, tic, tic...

Geez, just think, in a couple weeks we can do this all over again!

[Tom Hampton]

Yes... Just with some other impossible to tech part, no longer available new, randomly modified by the reman market that provides no measurable advantage.

The only question is how far down the field it will roll down? Do you want to finish 6th, 7th, or 10th?

Well... One more question... Who is holding the trump card protest,waiting to pounce?

[Steve Scheifler]

Stephen Jeu has brought up a very good point:

“Isn’t the sole purpose of the cage just to keep the ball in the groove during assembly and when the CV is at extreme angles?“

I’m not sure that’s entirely correct, the cage may be a little more involved in retaining the position of the balls, I’ll leave to an expert to explain. But I think what he says does help explain why the outboard assembly is “tighter” than the inboard. (It is been confirmed more than once that the stock cage for the inboard joint has bigger holes and the balls pass through freely.) When you consider that most CV axles are designed for FWD cars and therefore the outer joint is subjected to far greater angles of articulation (when the wheels turn for a corner) it is easy to understand that the outer joint design might have a tighter cage as Steven describes. Our cars are simply burdened with a small unnecessary legacy of that design. That may have been obvious to others but I missed it.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I believe over on SMMD site on book of faces, Adam clearly stated that his brand new axles (for the race) from Cardone, the ball would pass through 10 of the 12 openings. This in and of itself shows me this isn't exact science that anybody is re-manufacturing or doing them to any spec. Also case in point I am familiar with someone in another class that bought their axles from O'Reilly auto parts, their balls also fall thru most of the holes and clearly the cages were cleaned up. Not sure how you can look at all the variables and land on anything that is spec or unmodified that is in the majority of cars???

To set this story straight it was Justin Casey who said that!

[Johnny D]

So your saying the top tenish, top prep, no detail unlooked, just happen to all buy O'Relly parts, because their's were wore out and accidently got loose cages out of OEM spec.

I hate when that happens

 

J~

[tylerbrown]

So your saying the top tenish, top prep, no detail unlooked, just happen to all buy O'Relly parts, because their's were wore out and accidently got loose cages out of OEM spec.

I hate when that happens

 

J~

 

What are O'Relly parts? 

[Johnny D]

What are O'Relly parts? 

 

https://www.oreillyauto.com/

 

Cavemans quote and sub quote from ZoomZoom22 #255 (number on the right) ^^

Get em while their hot, sold out soon, unless NASA brings this to a screaming halt.

 

J~

[Steve Scheifler]

Johnny, you’ve lost me. Between the confused non-sequitur and rolling around on the floor I’m thinking you were possessed by Bench’s spirit. Or is he actually still living??

[William Keeling]

If you/anyone can produce it, you'll get whomever off the hook.

"I got this from X, brand new/reman,  Stock miata part, I didn't modify it, here it is. Call them and you'll see"

 

I won't hold my breath though.

 

J~

 

 

never mind that is not what I was saying -- read what I wrote and what I quoted