Jump to content

Photo

ECOBRAP

- - - - - ecobrap efficiency mpg cost effective DFL Machine

  • Please log in to reply
115 replies to this topic

#21
ECOBRAP

ECOBRAP

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 381 posts
  • Location:Bay Area, CA
  • Region:Nor Cal
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:59

Matt

 

You definitely need to move the CAT up closer to the engine.  The CAT needs a certain temperature to be effective.  That is the reason Manifold Catalysts are on every car nowadays so they can light off quickly and start working for cold start emissions.

 

Steve

 

 

Hey Steve, agree that for max emissions efficiency, closer to the engine the better. Not sure it matters as much in this scenario considering our EGT's are significantly higher than a street car. But either way, I will likely be relocating to replace the resonator, right behind the midpipe flange.


-Ecobrap

We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#22
ECOBRAP

ECOBRAP

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 381 posts
  • Location:Bay Area, CA
  • Region:Nor Cal
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:59

You must race NASA :)

Larry Murdter has been towing his SM to the track on open trailer with a Nissan Quest for the last 7 years.

Brandon Miller has been driving his SM to the track since 2011 and podiums regularly in SSM.  He has the Sharpie car.  At least 4-5 others in the SM field drive their cars to the track. :)

This is all in SFR SCCA

 

Convincing people to drive their SM to the track, both from a comfort and safety perspective, will be far more difficult than convincing people to run an efficient tow vehicle and trailer, hence our approach.

 

But we do agree that if you want ultimate efficiency, you would be driving the car itself getting 30mpg in the process! Just like the good old days (see attached). I drove the car to 2015 NASA National Championships at Laguna and drove from 20th to 2nd :) Then drove it home!

Attached Files


  • Alberto likes this

-Ecobrap

We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#23
speedengineer

speedengineer

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 380 posts
  • Location:Michigan
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:84

Will be interesting to see what you find.  Best of luck.

 

FYI, I don't think your catalyst will do much.  These have to be operated at very near stoichiometric AFR to function with any amount of efficiency. 

 

I'm curious if you have attempted to calculate the total carbon footprint for a single racer in a season, and compared it to the typical carbon footprint of said person per year in total?  I wonder what percentage it is. 


Jason Kohler 

#84 SM

www.youtube.com/user/speedengineering

 

NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#24
Michael Novak

Michael Novak

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 493 posts
  • Location:Highland
  • Region:Michigan
  • Car Year:2002
  • Car Number:#9

I applaud the effort to try something different. I dont understand a few of your points?

 

1. The whole point of going racing is to be on track in most cases, while you might be saving fuel the rest of the agruement says you are getting alot less value in your track rental (racing) by not going out?

2. Your present CAT setup will provide little to no value and only stink up the pits and track. Leaning your car out to the max will cost a few HP but save alot of fuel. 

3. Aero and speed will help the towing but finding the sweet spot should be interesting. Save the fuel towing but don't change the track time that everyone goes racing for. 


Majors Winner - Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#25
Tom Sager

Tom Sager

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,531 posts
  • Location:Chicago Suburbs
  • Region:Central
  • Car Year:2001
  • Car Number:94

Hesitate to say this but I'm surprised there hasn't been some pushback on the part of a state/city/town regarding our "dirty" recreational activity.  California you'd think would be the first to make it an issue, even if the numbers in terms of pollutants generated is very small in the grand scheme.  That wouldn't stop some politician from bitching.  Campaign donations from track owners or overall economic impact might be insulating that.  We're just a small time amateur group so it seems that we might be the first to be challenged.  We don't provide much benefit to local economies compared to pro events.  Given that it never hurts IMO to look at ways to clean ourselves up a bit in the event that change is forced upon us.  To Mike's point if that means much less track time then the return on our investment is certainly diminished. 


Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#26
Steve Scheifler

Steve Scheifler

    member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,221 posts
  • Location:St. Louis

^ And intentionally drawing the attention of eco warriors to our sport is just asking for it.
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#27
Alberto

Alberto

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,270 posts
  • Location:Mountain View, CA
  • Region:SFR
  • Car Year:1990

Hesitate to say this but I'm surprised there hasn't been some pushback on the part of a state/city/town regarding our "dirty" recreational activity.  <snip>  Given that it never hurts IMO to look at ways to clean ourselves up a bit in the event that change is forced upon us.   

 

Yep.  Eventually, they will come for motorsports.  I'm surprised F1 hasn't been hit by this already.  


Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#28
ECOBRAP

ECOBRAP

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 381 posts
  • Location:Bay Area, CA
  • Region:Nor Cal
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:59

Interesting points, thanks for the brutal honesty on some of your parts. I went into this project knowing that some people would love it, and some would hate it.

 

Track Time

 

As for the whole track time thing, I have not stated once that I expect other people to ditch practice or qualifying. Just my choice that allows me stick within an environmental budget that I have set for myself this year. If other people want to join me, cool. If not, no big deal!

 

Now, if NASA implements an "Ecobrap" discount, to decrease entry cost if you do not go out in practice or qualifying? That might actually make it an option for some people.

 

Should it be forced? No. Could it be a discounted option? Yes. Will it happen? Who knows.

 

Environmental Impact

 

I will be making a video on this, with a trusty ol clickbait title: "How bad is auto racing for the environment".

 

I HAVE already done the calculations months ago when I decided to start this project. My results are what motivated me to do this project, for the GOOD of racing.

 

My entire 2019 racing season (3000 miles towing, plus 105 gallons of fuel at the track), yields about 2.5-3 metric tons of CO2 (yikes).

 

But that's just a number, doesn't really mean anything unless you have something to compare it to?

 

Well, what are other people my age (26) doing for fun? Well, they're hopping on a flight to Australia for 2 weeks and documenting it on Instagram for everyone to see.

 

How bad could that be? 350 people on a flight? Must be some scaling efficiency there?

 

The CO2 impact of ONE person, round trip from San Francisco to Australia. Economy Class. A whopping 3.5 tons.

 

Yes, my entire racing season, outputs less CO2 than one person's round trip flight to Australia. Hard to believe, until you realize that your average passenger plane burns one gallon per second. Doesn't matter that there are 350 people onboard, that is a LOT of burn rate to be divided.

 

Keep in mind that this is my racing season (20mpg towing minimum), and 15 gallons or less per race weekend. Most people's racing season will easily double that.

 

But just because racing isn't that bad compared to what other people do, doesn't mean we can't strive to be more efficient.

 

The good news is that we have the above statistic in our arsenal if they do decide to come after racing.

 

Catalytic Converter

 

See attached picture, this was taken as I rolled out for practice (yes I did have to do a few laps of practice in my first weekend. New car with lots of problems).

 

My car was the only one out of the 30-40 cars rolling onto track to have that cloud behind the car. I don't know about you, but that looks like H20 to me, which would argue that the cat is doing something, even when cold at the back of the pipe.

 

Either way, the emissions testing and dyno won't lie, so stay tuned for that :)

Attached Files


  • Alberto likes this

-Ecobrap

We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#29
ECOBRAP

ECOBRAP

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 381 posts
  • Location:Bay Area, CA
  • Region:Nor Cal
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:59

Our first race weekend episode is out now! Watch as we start the weekend in DFL, and work our way to the front.

 

Appreciate any feedback, and if you are interested in watching unedited race footage, let me know and I can upload the full races  :cheers:

 


  • screaming monkey, Justin Casey and callumhay like this

-Ecobrap

We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#30
OrangeCrush86

OrangeCrush86

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 424 posts
  • Location:BECKER
  • Region:Minnesota

Why not just eliminate towing all together and arrange to store your race car at the track? I think my local track offers this for minimal cost.


____________________________

http://jenkinsracing.com


#31
ECOBRAP

ECOBRAP

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 381 posts
  • Location:Bay Area, CA
  • Region:Nor Cal
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:59

Why not just eliminate towing all together and arrange to store your race car at the track? I think my local track offers this for minimal cost.

 

Like the idea, but doesn't work for me for a few reasons:

 

1. Need to work on the car constantly. Got screwed with a terrible motor in the car (bad bottom end), and need to get the car dialed before I can leave it alone more. Once that happens, this would be a more attractive option, because I can do simple maintenance like brakes with all the extra time I get from skipping qualifying LOL.

 

2. Main reason it doesn't work is that I live in the Bay Area. Storing a car and/or trailer is shockingly expensive here. Think $200/mo minimum for an outdoor parking spot for my dinky 14ft trailer. Storing a car at or near the track, would likely be a lot more expensive than that ($4-500/mo). Tough to justify when my round trip towing fuel costs are now only $30!


-Ecobrap

We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#32
callumhay

callumhay

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 151 posts
  • Location:tampa
  • Region:fl
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:35
The video is cool to watch and held my interest. The dings with every pass are a nice touch. I'm probably going to play them in my head when I'm on track now.... Except it will be for when I'm getting passed. The trailer u have is perfect for a Miata.

#33
powerss

powerss

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 144 posts
  • Location:Arizona
  • Region:ARiZONA
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:145

Why not just eliminate towing all together and arrange to store your race car at the track? I think my local track offers this for minimal cost.

 

This doesn't work if you race more than one track unless I'm missing something. Around the bay area there are at least 3 tracks to race.


  • Alberto likes this

Steven Powers

Arizona Region

2009 SoPAC Division Champion

2013 SoPAC Division Champion


#34
LarryKing

LarryKing

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,501 posts

Did you turn the mirrors on the 100mpg rig for reduced drag or because what is behind does not matter?

 

If everyone skipped qually how would we grid?  :devil:


2017 - SMSE SEDiv ECR Champion
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#35
ECOBRAP

ECOBRAP

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 381 posts
  • Location:Bay Area, CA
  • Region:Nor Cal
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:59

Did you turn the mirrors on the 100mpg rig for reduced drag or because what is behind does not matter?

 

If everyone skipped qually how would we grid?  :devil:

 

LOL nice catch. Yes mirrors turned down, for MPG while towing. Mirrors stuck above the cab so I turned them flat. Just forgot to set them back up when I got to the track  :nonono:

 

If everyone skipped qually, would be a fight for the last grid spot to try and win hard charger lol. Realistically what I think would be fun is single-lap qualifying for everyone. One flyer, make it or break it.


-Ecobrap

We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#36
Michael Novak

Michael Novak

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 493 posts
  • Location:Highland
  • Region:Michigan
  • Car Year:2002
  • Car Number:#9

Interesting video but it wasn't racing? I see what you are trying to accomplish and I find it interesting but qualifying is part of the weekend and you are paying for it--saving a gallon of fuel costs $100 or more ---and the wrecked car (that could come) and hurt feelings of driving through people who are racing each other also doesn't make sense to me. You hurt their races and you end up not racing people of your own caliber.

 

Show a normal weekend and ways to make it cheaper and more fuel efficient---- or at least that is my opinion. :)


  • Bench Racer and trimless like this
Majors Winner - Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#37
ECOBRAP

ECOBRAP

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 381 posts
  • Location:Bay Area, CA
  • Region:Nor Cal
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:59

Interesting video but it wasn't racing? I see what you are trying to accomplish and I find it interesting but qualifying is part of the weekend and you are paying for it--saving a gallon of fuel costs $100 or more ---and the wrecked car (that could come) and hurt feelings of driving through people who are racing each other also doesn't make sense to me. You hurt their races and you end up not racing people of your own caliber.

 

Show a normal weekend and ways to make it cheaper and more fuel efficient---- or at least that is my opinion. :)

 

Qualifying: As has been mentioned a few times in this article, I don't expect other people to skip qualifying. Doesn't make sense from a financial perspective considering you are paying for that time. Just my way of keeping my fuel usage per weekend at a certain threshold, along with creating some fun videos that will attract people to watch and change in the first place. But if people are going to get hung up on this and miss the big picture (less transport fuel, less tires, less waste, high flow catalytic converter), then I should change my approach so that people do not get hung up on that point and discredit the more important things. Would appreciate some feedback from others on this, is this really a speed bump that stops people from seeing the big picture?

 

Wasn't racing? Not sure I agree on that one. Even in 20th place back I am dealing with defense, and I don't expect (or want) to be treated any differently. I treat 37th place with the same amount of respect as I would battling for 1st place. Sure, Race 1 might be a bit of seal clubbing (this is a term from video games, when an experienced player plays against noobs LOL), but the feedback I got at the track was that people like having a rabbit to follow and see what I am doing differently. If someone comes up and says what I am doing takes the fun away from them, then I will certainly change what I am doing. As for Race 2 and Race 3, I am certainly battling for position.

 

Wrecked car? Now this I do see some validity to. If 10 people join me at the back, and our egos get in the way and we start battling each other while fighting for hard charger. Bad things could happen, lots of variables and differential closing speeds. If people do join me, I would emphasize that the passing car always has the responsibility to make a safe pass, doesn't matter if it is for 30th place or 1st place. You might note that on the first lap of the first race, I waited until Turn 4 to really start doing anything, very boring start for me, but the only approach that I viewed as safe. From that point on, each pass was mostly a 1v1 situation, instead of a 5 wide cluster with 15mph differential speeds. If I see this becoming a potential issue, then I will also change my approach.


-Ecobrap

We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#38
mdavis

mdavis

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 170 posts
  • Region:Texas

Did I hear you say that you were headed home on Saturday and back on Sunday?  Camping in the trailer would probably save you enough fuel to qualify.  Maybe more.


Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#39
Tom Hampton

Tom Hampton

    Egregious Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,936 posts
  • Location:Mckinney, tx
  • Region:South west
  • Car Year:1992
  • Car Number:41

Qualifying: As has been mentioned a few times in this article, I don't expect other people to skip qualifying. Doesn't make sense from a financial perspective considering you are paying for that time. Just my way of keeping my fuel usage per weekend at a certain threshold, along with creating some fun videos that will attract people to watch and change in the first place. But if people are going to get hung up on this and miss the big picture (less transport fuel, less tires, less waste, high flow catalytic converter), then I should change my approach so that people do not get hung up on that point and discredit the more important things. Would appreciate some feedback from others on this, is this really a speed bump that stops people from seeing the big picture?

Wasn't racing? Not sure I agree on that one. Even in 20th place back I am dealing with defense, and I don't expect (or want) to be treated any differently. I treat 37th place with the same amount of respect as I would battling for 1st place. Sure, Race 1 might be a bit of seal clubbing (this is a term from video games, when an experienced player plays against noobs LOL), but the feedback I got at the track was that people like having a rabbit to follow and see what I am doing differently. If someone comes up and says what I am doing takes the fun away from them, then I will certainly change what I am doing. As for Race 2 and Race 3, I am certainly battling for position.

Wrecked car? Now this I do see some validity to. If 10 people join me at the back, and our egos get in the way and we start battling each other while fighting for hard charger. Bad things could happen, lots of variables and differential closing speeds. If people do join me, I would emphasize that the passing car always has the responsibility to make a safe pass, doesn't matter if it is for 30th place or 1st place. You might note that on the first lap of the first race, I waited until Turn 4 to really start doing anything, very boring start for me, but the only approach that I viewed as safe. From that point on, each pass was mostly a 1v1 situation, instead of a 5 wide cluster with 15mph differential speeds. If I see this becoming a potential issue, then I will also change my approach.

Hung up? No. But, I agree that you should run a normal race weekend just like everyone else does and will continue to do. Qualifying has the very valid purpose, of avoiding the cluster at the back of the pack. Eliminating it from your weekend is just artificial.

And it solves ALL of the other complaints above, as well.
  • Bench Racer likes this

-tch
Build: www.tomhampton.info

video: vimeo.com/tomhampton

Support: X-Factor Racing

 

I didn't lose, I just got outspent!

Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#40
Alberto

Alberto

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,270 posts
  • Location:Mountain View, CA
  • Region:SFR
  • Car Year:1990

Qualifying has the very valid purpose, of avoiding the cluster at the front of the pack. Eliminating it from your weekend is just artificial.

 

 

Fixed that for you 

 

Most of the clusterfuck pinhata party is rows 3-6 at most races that I've participated in :)


  • callumhay likes this
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users