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#21
Michael Novak

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No reason to assume no tow rating.

 

Tesla Model X - rated at 4980

Tesla Model 3 - Tesla has a hitch for it. Tow rating unknown

 

I would be suprised if it will be able to tow the distance, but I am curious. I look forward to hearing

Tow ratings come from the OEM. The KIA has tow ratings in some countries, but not in the USA at this point. If tow and have a accident and your vehicle either doesnt have a rating or you are over the rating of the OEM--- lawyers will have a field day with you. While I agree the chances of it are low--you know the rest of how it goes....


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#22
Martinracing98

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Tow ratings come from the OEM. The KIA has tow ratings in some countries, but not in the USA at this point. If tow and have a accident and your vehicle either doesnt have a rating or you are over the rating of the OEM--- lawyers will have a field day with you. While I agree the chances of it are low--you know the rest of how it goes....

 

I am not sure what point you were trying to make. I did not suggest you can tow at whatever weight you want. I agree the tow rating comes from the manufacturer and it is country specific. It seems like Europe typically has a higher tow rating than US. As I said I do not know if Tesla 3 has tow rating. I see they were testing a hitch. So maybe they are looking into it. I know the Tesla X owners manual says it is available with a tow package and that the tow rating is 4960 (I thought it was 4980). I know at a car show their sales guy said it had about a 5k tow rating.

 

I do not know what vehicle he intends to use, but there appears to be at least one that has the tow rating needed. I am not real confident he will be able to tow the 90 something miles I think he said he tows. I look forward to seeing.



#23
Michael Novak

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I am not sure what point you were trying to make. I did not suggest you can tow at whatever weight you want. I agree the tow rating comes from the manufacturer and it is country specific. It seems like Europe typically has a higher tow rating than US. As I said I do not know if Tesla 3 has tow rating. I see they were testing a hitch. So maybe they are looking into it. I know the Tesla X owners manual says it is available with a tow package and that the tow rating is 4960 (I thought it was 4980). I know at a car show their sales guy said it had about a 5k tow rating.

 

I do not know what vehicle he intends to use, but there appears to be at least one that has the tow rating needed. I am not real confident he will be able to tow the 90 something miles I think he said he tows. I look forward to seeing.

He is planning on using a KIA--which doesn't doesn't have a tow rating. Because it has a rating in other countries may or may not mean it will be fine. Calibrations and suspension settings may be different and thus not rated to tow in the US.  

 

I am would like to see how it does though? Considering most EV's that are in the 230 mpc range get about 175 or less just when using the heat, I am guessing he will be get very little mileage. Also the duty cycle on the most EVs doesn't plan for the kind of heat that towing will create. 


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#24
Martinracing98

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He is planning on using a KIA--which doesn't doesn't have a tow rating. Because it has a rating in other countries may or may not mean it will be fine. Calibrations and suspension settings may be different and thus not rated to tow in the US.  

 

I am would like to see how it does though? Considering most EV's that are in the 230 mpc range get about 175 or less just when using the heat, I am guessing he will be get very little mileage. Also the duty cycle on the most EVs doesn't plan for the kind of heat that towing will create. 

Now I get your point. I did not see where Kia was the vehicle being used. I agree, bad idea



#25
ECOBRAP

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You do understand that if you have a significant accident while towing with your car the legal results could be very bad. The courts think poorly of vehicles that are over weight or have no tow rating like yours. I personally think it will be fine and safe, but the range will be VERY poor. Hopefully I am wrong and you get into the 100's. We will wait for results.

 

How do you like the car as a daily driver?

 

Legally I will be fully above board. Will be staying under GVWR, GAWR, Hitch Capacity, Tire Capacity, etc. Lots of towing experience, and many research studies say towing up to 80% of vehicle weight is not a problem, so long as you have appropriate tongue weight 9-15%. I have 4 disc brakes along with new trailer brakes (with brake controller to mitigate sway if it happens, very unlikely at 55mph). The regenerative braking adds about 70hp of braking force alone. So the only argument will be that the vehicle wasn't recommended for towing, which is simply BS and "unrated". So yes it might be a fight, but I am setting myself up with a hefty amount of preparation and backup. Certainly safer than many tow setups on the road.

 

Will be doing a lot of short-run testing beforehand to check for stability and braking issues, but I do not think I will have a problem. Worst case I might have to install some coil-insert airbags to help the rear from squatting. Although I have already put 3-400 pounds on the back (thanks friends at the track for being guinea pigs) and the rear only squatted 1".

 

As for the car as a daily driver, I absolutely love it. If you told 16 year old me that my first new car would be a F-ing Kia, I would have punched 26 year old me in the face.

 

But it drives extremely well, very comfortable, lots of standard equipment (adaptive cruise and lane keep!). It has a stupid amount of torque, I can take gaps in traffic or yellow lights that would not be possible in any ICE car that has to downshift. Paddle shifters on the wheel to control regenerative braking levels which is awesome and keeps me engaged.

 

Only issues are the Kia badge, and FWD.

 

I have a DC fast charging station (50KW) 2 miles from my house, and a Level 2 charging station (7KW) 200 yards from my house. Ideally I will be installing a 240V outlet to charge at home to save a bit of $. It is fantastic for the environment, and charging cost is the equivalent of having a 67-70MPG gasoline car.

 

 

No reason to assume no tow rating.

 

Tesla Model X - rated at 4980

Tesla Model 3 - Tesla has a hitch for it. Tow rating unknown

 

I would be suprised if it will be able to tow the distance, but I am curious. I look forward to hearing

 

Yep. From all the research I have done, the only reason EV's are not rated for towing is because "The Range Will be Affected"

 

Funny because range is obviously affected on any ICE vehicle while towing as well...

 

And yes Model X is rated to tow 80% of its weight. We will be under that ratio as well (75-80%)

 

 


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#26
ECOBRAP

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Now I get your point. I did not see where Kia was the vehicle being used. I agree, bad idea

 

 

If a Golf TDI is rated to tow 3100lbs in Europe, my car (which weighs 4,000lbs) should be able to tow that same figure just fine. The lack of US tow ratings is to protect warranties, and mitigate liability concerns. No reason EVERY car doesnt come with a 1,000lb tow rating at minimum. They are just trying to upsell their pickup trucks and SUV's that have higher margin/profit.

 

As for range, I doubt many people figured 23.5MPG with a stock truck towing 4,000lbs was possible, but we proved that wrong. Hopefully our estimate of range drop to 50% is in the ball park.

 

As for the powertrain thermal capacity for towing. Every EV is equipped with a thermal cutback device. If the motor/batteries/inverter get too hot, there is a linear drop in power until it reaches its threshold, which is typically 50% power. It should never simply cut out.

 

TFL

 

Keep in mind, TFL Truck on YouTube has already tested the Model X on its rigorous towing route called the Ike Gauntlet (8 miles at 7% grade). They were towing at max capacity.

 

On the way DOWN the grade, the Tesla was the first vehicle they have EVER tested, that they did not have to hit the brakes once. The regenerative braking system is stronger than any ICE engine braking system. They actually had to accelerate (to decrease the regenerative braking) to keep the car at speed going down the massive grade.

 

On the way UP the grade, the vehicle set the fastest time of any vehicle loaded to capacity. No thermal cutback. Yes it ate through range like a MOFO, but it handled it like a champ.

 

Video here: https://www.youtube....h?v=DVSHIZihESk

 

Considering I won't even see a sniff of a grade like that, I think I'll be fine :)


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#27
EMatoy

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What is GCVW for the Kia you plan to use?

#28
ECOBRAP

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GVWR: 4916 lbs

GAWR: 2557 lbs (each axle)

Tire Capacity: 1477lbs (per tire)

Hitch Capacity: 525lbs tongue / 3500lb towing capacity

GCW is not listed anywhere, typically only displayed on trucks

 

Weight of Vehicle with me in it: 4000lbs even

 

That leaves 916lbs free for tools, spares, tongue weight, etc.

 

Will need to load up the car to towing spec, then weigh the rear axle, and add my tongue weight. That is likely the only number that will come close (tongue weight and rear biased cargo could pretty easily add up to 500lbs).

 

But again, I will make any adjustments to my loadout so that I can stay under this threshold. Once the concept is proven, I will likely buy an even lighter trailer (aluminum single axle 600lbs) that allows me to take a spare set of wheels/tires which is the only thing that I have trimmed down for this setup.


-Ecobrap

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#29
Martinracing98

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If a Golf TDI is rated to tow 3100lbs in Europe, my car (which weighs 4,000lbs) should be able to tow that same figure just fine.

 

I do not think "It is legal in Germany" will be much of a defense if something goes wrong. If I get pulled over on interstate in my 2018 Golf R doing Autobahn speeds I will try

  • Safer than many cars on the road
  • More capable than most cars on the road
  • Legal in Germany

<_<


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#30
ECOBRAP

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I do not think "It is legal in Germany" will be much of a defense if something goes wrong. If I get pulled over on interstate in my 2018 Golf R doing Autobahn speeds I will try

  • Safer than many cars on the road
  • More capable than most cars on the road
  • Legal in Germany

<_<

 

Bad analogy. What I am doing (ignoring OEM "recommended" towing capacity) is not illegal in the US, unlike doing 150mph down I-80.

 

Find me a law that says you have to abide by OEM tow capacity, federal or state. Explicitly stated I will not be breaking any laws.


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-Ecobrap

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