51 replies to this topic

[ECOBRAP]

ECOBRAP Green Jeans, one of YOUR left coasters started the Ford tangent, did ga miss that part. Please inform yourself before starting more 

 

He made a simple Ford joke, nothing to do with politics. You seem extremely offended by it? Maybe you were one of the data samples that thought EV's run off gasoline?

 

You sound eerily similar to the guy that flew to California, rented a car, threw flaming pieces of paper out the window just to start wildfires in a state he doesn't like.

 

FYI, not everyone from the "left coast" is actually left on the political spectrum.

 

I am certainly in the middle, disliking Trump and Hillary equally, but politically I always find it ironic that being conservative about the environment/atmosphere is not considered conservative, instead it is a scam to have us all spend more money. Keep telling yourself that, while my towing cost is seven cents per mile, and no maintenance until 150k miles, by which time I will have already sold the car. LOL, love it!

[Tom Sager]

Careful Bench, Fancy Nancy is just one short link between Mikey & Donny on the Ukraine issue from being the first Madame POTUS.

 

I actually think she's closer to being the main character in the Weekend At Bernies sequel than she is to the Presidency. 

[Steve Scheifler]

Sorry, the reference went right over my head, but whichever way it goes I’m just glad there won’t be much time left in this term.

So back on topic, sort of, how many more EVs need to burn to the ground before insurance companies raise rates an cut into those “savings”?

[ECOBRAP]

So back on topic, sort of, how many more EVs need to burn to the ground before insurance companies raise rates an cut into those “savings”?

 

You've got an argument for everything, impressive!

 

To answer your question, 11x more EV's would have to catch fire, and that will match ICE fires (per miles driven)

 

Data samples are small, but not a bad start for new technology that will only get even better/safer.

 

Maybe I should call my insurance agent and ask for lower rates, thanks for the reminder!

 

https://money.cnn.co...risk/index.html

 

https://www.business...ce-fires-2019-5

[Steve Scheifler]

I know the stats but couldn’t resist giving you something else to go on about.

[Parity]

You've got an argument for everything, impressive!

 

To answer your question, 11x more EV's would have to catch fire, and that will match ICE fires (per miles driven)

 

Data samples are small, but not a bad start for new technology that will only get even better/safer.

 

Maybe I should call my insurance agent and ask for lower rates, thanks for the reminder!

 

https://money.cnn.co...risk/index.html

 

https://www.business...ce-fires-2019-5

 

Not to be a stickler but this "statistical" information is definitely skewed which unfortunately is par for the course for many advertisers wanting to push their claims. I have zero data but suspect many ICE fires include older cars not properly maintained. A better comparison would be ICE vs hybrid/electric of the same model year.

 

Anyway, I think what you're doing is great as most of us will eventually have to drive electric whether we like it or not. I attended a Porsche LMP race at COTA a few years ago and had some time with a Porsche rep. When asked "why electric" he pointed out it was not a market or engineering based decision but a legislative mandate. In essence, if you want to keep making cars you're going to have to make them electric. Look for a possible hybrid option in 911 992.2 release.

[LarryKing]

I'm imagine most of you have seen this video - the future of EV cars looks fine. I've been pondering an electric motorcycle except they keep improving and I don't want to buy too soon.

 

[Alberto]

Apologies for derailing the thread by poking fun at some low hanging fruit.  I don't have any problem with Ford or GM.  BMW, VW and the other German cars can go suck it though.

 

I'm old but not as grumpy and cranky as some of you but I have an open mind.  Overall, I think what Matt is doing is cool.  I wouldn't do this towing thing personally but this is what I'd expect and hope the younger generation would do - ignore us grumpy old curmudgeons who think they've seen and know everything and follow their own paths. 

 

The world changes.  Old dogs find it hard to learn new tricks.  Life goes on.  Get off my lawn!

[ECOBRAP]

A better comparison would be ICE vs hybrid/electric of the same model year.

 

Agree that the sample size is small and not apples-to-apples. That being said, haven't seen many 2010 Leaf's bursting into flames as they approach the end of their battery lives, but time will tell.

 

 

I've been pondering an electric motorcycle except they keep improving and I don't want to buy too soon.

 

Before I started my own business, I worked at Zero Motorcycles (right after I left college).

 

Extremely cool bikes, and addicting to ride. Pulling away from 1 Liter bikes at every stop light without making a sound was always entertaining.

 

I am planning to do a video with Zero soon, specifically off-road, stay tuned for that one. I love 4 stroke thumping through the woods, but the EV's I have ridden off road are equally cool, just in a very different way. Whizzing down the trail at 60mph while hearing everything around you is pretty surreal.

 

 

I wouldn't do this towing thing personally

 

Yep, no problems and thanks for the curiosity! I understand what I'm doing is unusual, and easy for me to do because I am only 180-200 miles from my furthest regional track. Just showing the option is there, and can be extremely cost effective. Also an easy way to disguise the wife's daily driver as your secret tow vehicle LOL.

 

This will all become more realistic when the EV pickups come out (Rivian, Ford, Tesla), but I just wanted a head start on the experience and feasibility of it all.

 

Not to mention I also probably couldn't afford any of those either as I am expecting $70k base model prices (Tesla is supposed to be 50 but I don't believe it). We will see...

[LarryKing]

Yep, Zeros look pretty sweet.

 

The biggest drawback for me of EVs (2 or 4 wheeled) is the price. Hopefully that will change (because companies lower their prices ALL the time  )

[ECOBRAP]

The biggest drawback for me of EVs (2 or 4 wheeled) is the price. Hopefully that will change (because companies lower their prices ALL the time  )

 

Yep, I personally couldn't financially justify a 2 wheeled EV, even after incentives. Unless I used it a LOT.

 

As for 4 wheeled, my Kia came out to $32k after incentives, out the door. Still pricey, especially for a KIA, but less than the average new car and came with awesome standard equipment. Great build quality too.

 

I was close to getting a Chevy Bolt, because it has similar range, and way cheaper. I found I could get one new, after incentives, out the door, for around $22k... probably the cheapest new car in the country when you factor in purchase price and operational costs over its lifetime.

 

Why didn't I? No Class III hitch available for it, no independent rear suspension (my kia has IRS), and just generally too small for my needs.

[Steve Scheifler]

Agree that the sample size is small and not apples-to-apples. That being said, haven't seen many 2010 Leaf's bursting into flames as they approach the end of their battery lives, but time will tell.
...

What you also don’t see is ICE cars spontaneously bursting into flames on the grocery parking lot, or in a parking garage, or in your tuck garage while you and the family are upstairs sound asleep. Or reigniting in the impound yard the next day or behind the wrecker headed for the shop. It’s about fear and politics (often close cousins), and the idea that your car can take out your entire family for no apparent reason is hard to shake once set, no matter the cherry-picked statistics. Some people love nothing so much as a new reason to say “if it saves just one life...” as they propose some ridiculous new law.

I’m not anti-EV by any stretch but they need to solve the battery problem, especially since everyone is working overtime to pack even more energy into them. Hopefully the next breakthrough battery type will be easier to manage.

[Bench Racer]

Hay, hay, hay Green People, a value contribution, last Friday I took a picture of six Tesla charging at a Festival foods in Oshkosh, WI.  

[ECOBRAP]

What you also don’t see is ICE cars spontaneously bursting into flames

 

And I could say that I would prefer the EV to burst into flames 48hrs later at the wrecking yard, than while my family is unconscious in an overturned vehicle waiting to be extracted. Fuel/EV fires both have their pros/cons, and neither of us have the data to say which is safer. Personally, I will use the current data-set, because battery fires typically do not occur because of age, and therefore I don't expect that "11x less likely" figure to change much, but we'll see in 10 years.

 

Fortunately, it is not a statistically significant issue in either scenario, so I'll focus on the things that affect me most, which is $, reliability, and CO2.

 

You can focus on the unlikely garage fire scenario, but because I doubt you will ever be in the market for an EV, I don't really have a need to convince you otherwise. Your mind will never be changed, so save us both a breath from commenting on these threads, would highly appreciate it. No hard feelings and you're free to do what you want, but just realize it tends to waste both of our time, and diverts the thread from its original purpose.

[Steve Scheifler]

You clearly don’t know me so stop assuming that you know what’s in my mind. I drove the original Tesla roadster when it was introduced and spoke favorably of it here, not for what it was so much as for what it represented. You want to know even a little something about me, look that up. For all his quirks and questionable actions at times I’m extremely pleased that Elon Musk is here and has devoted his time money and sheer audacity to the endeavors that he has rather than to building a faster yacht or amassing wealth for the sake of boasting about his success. You also don’t know that since then I have given serious consideration to an EV each time I’ve purchased an automobile but as yet none has met my needs, which is simply fact not negative bias. Not that you should care what I think, and disagree all you like, just stop acting like you know me or can read my mind please.

My point above, if you weren’t so predisposed against getting it, is that people frighten easily and when something of which they are already suspicious bites them they are quick to give up on it. Those friggin batteries are blowing up in everything from cell phones and computers to scooters and automobiles, not to mention literally in people’s faces. Sure a lot of that is third rate junk poorly designed and worse QC, but from the earliest days Tesla’s top technological accomplishment was probably their ability to manage the batteries. Yet they are having problems, and a Tesla is able to release a lot more energy than a laptop or scooter. As I tried to say above, statistics be damned, it’s a serious problem and it needs a massive amount of attention before there’s an EV in every garage. If you want to post this kind of stuff without anyone questioning your claims or mentioning relevant counterpoints, stick to sites aimed at blind faith disciples or fifth graders.

By the way, GM’s ignition switch flaw wasn’t a “statistically significant” problem either.

[ECOBRAP]

My judgments are based on your dozens of posts on my threads, all of which provide the same skeptic, negative demeanor. From that, I am not interested in learning more about you, or continuing endless debates that tangent into no man's land, I would prefer to spend my time with people that are genuinely curious about new ideas. I hope you feel the same way, and we can stop wasting each other's time. I will likely have to delete this thread at some point because it has gone way out of line, and now likely counters all the hard work I am doing with this project, out of my own pocket.

Yes, it is my own fault for even responding to your skeptics, but I feel the need to provide data against misconceptions that you provide (EV fire risk, insurance rates, etc) just to stir the pot. And then it spirals from there. Again, I can only ask, but please stop wasting our time

[Parity]

Nobody's dealing with the real question here which once Miata's go electric what rule change swill be needed to ensure parity?

[gerglmuff2]

My judgments are based on your dozens of posts on my threads, all of which provide the same skeptic, negative demeanor. From that, I am not interested in learning more about you, or continuing endless debates that tangent into no man's land, I would prefer to spend my time with people that are genuinely curious about new ideas. I hope you feel the same way, and we can stop wasting each other's time. I will likely have to delete this thread at some point because it has gone way out of line, and now likely counters all the hard work I am doing with this project, out of my own pocket.

Yes, it is my own fault for even responding to your skeptics, but I feel the need to provide data against misconceptions that you provide (EV fire risk, insurance rates, etc) just to stir the pot. And then it spirals from there. Again, I can only ask, but please stop wasting our time

 

its amazing what it will take to pull someone people along. he's gonna find any negative, no matter how silly, to convince himself EVs can't work. when they do, and have been, and are. car fires? lol, gas cars are literally a 5 dollar rubber hose away from a car fire, at any time. super dangerous. lol

while i have no plans to purchase an EV (too costly for now, i drive 500 dollar beaters), i totally respect and love watching your content, as someone who respects the "just go and do it and find out" method, and you are proving that it works, end of story. thats pretty cool in my book. as i have said before, plenty of your lessons on aerodynamics and mileage apply to everyone else too. i keep my rig at 65 mph, and i get almost 2 more mpg, thats super real. 

[Tom Sager]

I too have dipped my toe in the water looking at EV's.  Will strongly consider adding one to the fleet in few years after selection and development improves assuming there aren't any surprises in vehicle reliability and cost of ownership.  I'm a good candidate for one given my daily commute is less than 20 miles round trip and during the week my travel does not include much else.  True electric cars will bring a real simplicity to the vehicles with far fewer systems needed to operate the car. 

 

That said, getting an EV will not mean getting rid of my American V-8 street car.  Look forward to owning both. 

[Steve Scheifler]

muff, another one who skips right past most of what I post to completely mischaracterize the rest and me, typical. But talking about being pulled along, if the obvious fact that slowing down when towing on the highway increases MPG is a “super real” revelation, then you are very easily impressed. Here’s a hot tip for you, you can save fuel in your race car by placing an egg under the throttle pedal, lol!
Oh, and guys, if this topic gets deleted keep in mind who started going personal rather than just discussing the topic. I employed a bit of satire, sure, but I think I stuck to attacking claims not people.