51 replies to this topic

[gerglmuff2]

muff, another one who skips right past most of what I post to completely mischaracterize the rest and me, typical. But talking about being pulled along, if the obvious fact that slowing down when towing on the highway increases MPG is a “super real” revelation, then you are very easily impressed. Here’s a hot tip for you, you can save fuel in you race car by placing an egg under the throttle pedal, lol!
Oh, and guys, if this topic gets deleted keep in mind who started going personal rather than just discussing the topic. I employed a bit of satire, sure, but I think I stuck to attacking claims not people.

engaging you has proven to be fruitless in every thread i have seen. and you troll every single ecobrap thread with nonsense every time he posts. 

[LarryKing]

I bet this could tow a Miata:

https://www.caranddr...XxTeU3iCE0a-xQE

[ECOBRAP]

I bet this could tow a Miata:

https://www.caranddr...XxTeU3iCE0a-xQE

 

AND it has a Getrag 6-Speed?? Awesome

 

 

[Sphinx]

Sorry, the reference went right over my head, but whichever way it goes I’m just glad there won’t be much time left in this term.

So back on topic, sort of, how many more EVs need to burn to the ground before insurance companies raise rates an cut into those “savings”?

 

Watch this and then tell me how many gasoline car-b-ques are there each year: 

 

Yes, driving a flammable-liquid fueled car that puts out poison is so much better.  Whodathunk!

 

If what you're saying is true, why have several major manufacturers said that they are moving an all electric fleet?  Sorry, but in the soon-to-come days of fully autonomous cars, the gasoline car will be dead.  It won't happen overnight - will probably take 20 years.

 

Sorry, but people made the same silly arguments in favor of horses 145 years ago when the car was first invented:

 

The dangers are obvious. Stores of gasoline in the hands of people interested primarily in profit would constitute a fire and explosive hazard of the first rank. Horseless carriages propelled by gasoline might attain speeds of 14 or even 20 miles per hour. The menace to our people of vehicles of this type hurtling through our streets and along our roads and poisoning the atmosphere would call for prompt legislative action even if the military and economic implications were not so overwhelming… [T]he cost of producing [gasoline] is far beyond the financial capacity of private industry… In addition the development of this new power may displace the use of horses, which would wreck our agriculture.

 

US Congressional Record, 1875:  https://medium.com/@...say-3c53169d9bc

 

Time to move on.

[mdavis]

The GIFs now have me interested in this thread.

[Steve Scheifler]

Sphinx, it’s almost as though you read nothing else I posted after that.

[Parity]

https://www.sae.org/...ive-engineering

 

SAE Automotive Engineering has a cover piece on a 600 mile trip in a Jag I-Pace. It's a pretty good real world assessment of longer trips in an EV. They're looking at range improvements but also published trip costs at $152.60 to travel 636 miles. There are some discount available which can reduce that number but for comparison they expect an ICE to be below $60 for the same trip. Also they spent between 35 to 62 minutes at each recharging station. Sure there's lots of optimism in forthcoming improvements but that has to dramatically change before I would consider this a success. I can only imagine waiting in lines for 10 people in front of me recharging at 45 minutes a piece. I think I'd be going back to the horse idea.

 

Added - 5 recharging stops. My VW TDI will make this on one tank.

 

Looks like they have a long way to go.

[Steve Scheifler]

https://www.sae.org/...ive-engineering

SAE Automotive Engineering has a cover piece on a 600 mile trip in a Jag I-Pace. It's a pretty good real world assessment of longer trips in an EV. They're looking at range improvements but also published trip costs at $152.60 to travel 636 miles. There are some discount available which can reduce that number but for comparison they expect an ICE to be below $60 for the same trip. Also they spent between 35 to 62 minutes at each recharging station. Sure there's lots of optimism in forthcoming improvements but that has to dramatically change before I would consider this a success. I can only imagine waiting in lines for 10 people in front of me recharging at 45 minutes a piece. I think I'd be going back to the horse idea.

Added - 5 recharging stops. My VW TDI will make this on one tank.

Looks like they have a long way to go.

Clearly no one told you that Parity is not allowed in this discussion.

[Tom Sager]

https://www.sae.org/...ive-engineering

 

SAE Automotive Engineering has a cover piece on a 600 mile trip in a Jag I-Pace. It's a pretty good real world assessment of longer trips in an EV. They're looking at range improvements but also published trip costs at $152.60 to travel 636 miles. There are some discount available which can reduce that number but for comparison they expect an ICE to be below $60 for the same trip. Also they spent between 35 to 62 minutes at each recharging station. Sure there's lots of optimism in forthcoming improvements but that has to dramatically change before I would consider this a success. I can only imagine waiting in lines for 10 people in front of me recharging at 45 minutes a piece. I think I'd be going back to the horse idea.

 

Added - 5 recharging stops. My VW TDI will make this on one tank.

 

Looks like they have a long way to go.

 

Maybe someone will design a battery cartridge that might be used as a reserve energy source that can be swapped in and out of a vehicle quickly allowing you to leave the dead core behind to be recharged.  Sort of the Blue Rhino approach to liquid propane that we use for gas grills for any that are familiar with that.

 

The real answer though may be in development of batteries that can be charged in a single ZAP like a capacitor.  I have no expertise in this area but I've heard that some research may be ongoing for a technology like that.

[Steve Scheifler]

Maybe someone will design a battery cartridge that might be used as a reserve energy source that can be swapped in and out of a vehicle quickly allowing you to leave the dead core behind to be recharged. Sort of the Blue Rhino approach to liquid propane that we use for gas grills for any that are familiar with that.

The real answer though may be in development of batteries that can be charged in a single ZAP like a capacitor. I have no expertise in this area but I've heard that some research may be ongoing for a technology like that.

I believe the cartridge approach has been worked on for years already for specific applications, but scale quickly becomes an issue when you think of cross-country travel, and of course there’s currently no incentive for or likelihood of standardization across manufacturers so it may prove the most difficult solution. Logically it would also increase costs. People have been working on super capacitors for years and despite early hype I haven’t heard much lately. They also create certain additional hazards not unfamiliar to F1. So possible eventually, but likely not soon without some quantum advancement. Meanwhile fuel cells have been around for decades. Back in the 70s a buddy wanted to convert his Type 3 VW to a fuel cell but quickly discovered that it wasn’t even close to practical, and apparently still isn’t. People are still working on fuel cells but they have their own drawbacks and may need a major advance to get any traction.

Overall, new battery chemistry seems the most likely way forward in the near term. A few years later another guy in our group converted his 1972 Super Beetle to electric but could do no better than lead-acid technology. (He still has it) Increases in capacity vs bulk & weight tend to be in relatively small incremental steps but there are some in the works now that may break that rule. Hopefully whatever comes next won’t continue to rely on a mountain of literally thousands of individual cells hooked together, each representing a separate potentially catastrophic failure point.

Those open minded enough to read a somewhat more balanced examination of battery fires might be interested in the link below. I don’t suggest that everything in it be taken as gospel but it seems a comparatively fair and honest assessment.

https://www.business...-on-fire-2019-4

[Parity]

Maybe someone will design a battery cartridge that might be used as a reserve energy source that can be swapped in and out of a vehicle quickly allowing you to leave the dead core behind to be recharged.  Sort of the Blue Rhino approach to liquid propane that we use for gas grills for any that are familiar with that.

 

The real answer though may be in development of batteries that can be charged in a single ZAP like a capacitor.  I have no expertise in this area but I've heard that some research may be ongoing for a technology like that.

Looks like the battery swap idea isn't dead yet.

 

https://cleantechnic...ctric-vehicles/

[Sphinx]

https://www.sae.org/...ive-engineering

 

SAE Automotive Engineering has a cover piece on a 600 mile trip in a Jag I-Pace. It's a pretty good real world assessment of longer trips in an EV. They're looking at range improvements but also published trip costs at $152.60 to travel 636 miles. There are some discount available which can reduce that number but for comparison they expect an ICE to be below $60 for the same trip. Also they spent between 35 to 62 minutes at each recharging station. Sure there's lots of optimism in forthcoming improvements but that has to dramatically change before I would consider this a success. I can only imagine waiting in lines for 10 people in front of me recharging at 45 minutes a piece. I think I'd be going back to the horse idea.

 

Added - 5 recharging stops. My VW TDI will make this on one tank.

 

Looks like they have a long way to go.

 

That's why those other guys built their own charging network.  I've used those kinds of stations in the past and all I've done is gotten a "splash and go" to get me home.  My utility will provide a $.01/kwh rate if you charge off-peak.