65 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

https://grassrootsmo...6vCEpMdM5ks5ucI

[John Wilding]

That would be amazing. All of us in the Southeast that are running the Toyo RR's have been very happy with them. I have 15 heat cycles on my RR's that I purchased at the end of 2019 and they are still competitive. Having an even more durable tire would be awesome. 

 

[Steve Scheifler]

Hey why not? According to their marketing department it’s “stylish”, and that’s always at the top of my priority list for tires. Can we put marketing people somewhere between lawyers and politicians for the great cleansing?

[Alberto]

Hey why not? According to their marketing department it’s “stylish”, and that’s always at the top of my priority list for tires. Can we put marketing people somewhere between lawyers and politicians for the great cleansing?

 

Don't forget the insurance people

[Tom Sager]

Let's hope we're on a less expensive tire next year in SCCA than we are now.  That being many more competitive/consistent track cycles per tire.  Please, please, please. 

[Jim Drago]

Let's hope we're on a less expensive tire next year in SCCA than we are now.  That being many more competitive/consistent track cycles per tire.  Please, please, please. 

ha ha ha

As long as tires are spec, that manufacturer is the sponsor of  racing series within the club.. We will never have reasonable tires.  You want cheaper tires? Go open tires..   Not best for the class, but tire cost should go down with competition.  You would still have a psuedo spec tire as best will be the spec tire

[Jamz14]

That would be amazing. I have 15 heat cycles on my RR's that I purchased at the end of 2019 and they are still competitive
 

That is amazing. Almost unbelievable.

I guess competitive is relative. Yeah they are competitive against others that have similar cycles. They have great wear depending on the setup. But against a delightful set of fresh RRs. ..........? Yeah you could win on them, but something needs to go wrong with your competitor of equal skill and equipment on fresh RRs.

[TylerQuance]

Has anyone else noticed how much longer our 7.5s are fast than 7s were? I have been able to turn the same lap into the 5th or so session.

[Tom Sager]

ha ha ha

As long as tires are spec, that manufacturer is the sponsor of  racing series within the club.. We will never have reasonable tires.  You want cheaper tires? Go open tires..   Not best for the class, but tire cost should go down with competition.  You would still have a psuedo spec tire as best will be the spec tire

Understand your point.  Seems to me that the competitors in SCCA want a better solution.  No doubt we can do better so we should.  This just needs some will and resolve from whoever within the club is responsible.  Your tire limiting suggestion (if you didn't originate you certainly amplified it) is one piece with the other being a better tire.  We really should do both,  but may not need the limiting rule with a much better tire. 

 

Open tires creates other problems.  Expensive testing, special deals for a handful of drivers only and continuous change when new products are introduced.  That's how Showroom stock was and probably true today in some of the Touring classes.

 

Frustrating topic.  We were asked as a class for input, input was given 2 years ago or more IIRC and we get squat for action and updates.  I don't consider the change to the 7.5 meaningful action.

 

To answer Tyler's question above I think the answer is zero.  Zero additional competitive life from the 7.5.  Front runners are using the same number of tires from what I can see except when cost containment moves up the priority list for an event or a season or when selected tracks offer competitive times from older tires. 

[Jim Drago]

That is amazing. Almost unbelievable.

I guess competitive is relative. Yeah they are competitive against others that have similar cycles. They have great wear depending on the setup. But against a delightful set of fresh RRs. ..........? Yeah you could win on them, but something needs to go wrong with your competitor of equal skill and equipment on fresh RRs.

Look at that, we have a winner   we agree  

[tynor]

These tire threads always seem to devolve into "there's no point in getting a longer lasting tire, since the guys at the pointy end are going to run stickers anyway".    No doubt true.  And if we stop there, there's no reason to try very hard to find a better tire.

 

But for the rest of us with smaller budgets, and regional mid-pack aspirations, we are likely competing against other more budget minded drivers and eeking another weekend or two out of a set of tires might be the difference in running an extra race or two.

 

Until SCCA specs a better tire, I'm running Toyos in the new southeast SMT class.

[Jim Drago]

Understand your point.  Seems to me that the competitors in SCCA want a better solution.  No doubt we can do better so we should.  This just needs some will and resolve from whoever within the club is responsible.  Your tire limiting suggestion (if you didn't originate you certainly amplified it) is one piece with the other being a better tire.  We really should do both,  but may not need the limiting rule with a much better tire. 

 

Open tires creates other problems.  Expensive testing, special deals for a handful of drivers only and continuous change when new products are introduced.  That's how Showroom stock was and probably true today in some of the Touring classes.

 

Frustrating topic.  We were asked as a class for input, input was given 2 years ago or more IIRC and we get squat for action and updates.  I don't consider the change to the 7.5 meaningful action.

 

To answer Tyler's question above I think the answer is zero.  Zero additional competitive life from the 7.5.  Front runners are using the same number of tires from what I can see except when cost containment moves up the priority list for an event or a season or when selected tracks offer competitive times from older tires. 

Tom

The issue is the same as it has been in club racing forever.. People are inherently lazy and or don't really give a shit   many are more than willing to bitch here, but very few took up any real action when the tire limiting proposal was put out( very few letters even sent in), so it failed as it should have. Then you had others worrying only about their own personal program ( some at the top wanting to sticker up and many at the bottom worrying about using a tire from 13 one from 18 and two from this season or other crazy and IMO not well thought out objections about their tire management programs. . and not for what was best for the class. The SMACs answer to people stickering up was  adopting socialism and to cut the tire contingency in half to first and second place finishers at super tours. While I don't object to  spreading the tire contingency around.. When you win the same number of tires for winning a regional with 4-6 cars versus a Super tour with 70 cars, the premier series where our spec tire manufacturer is the title sponsor, that seems like a very poor distribution of contingency tires especially when you count in the number of new tires purchased at those events.   It also DID ZERO to curtail the number of stickers tires used at the front, just costs us more money. i sent in a letter, I think they need to look at this again.

 

 I am of the opinion that will will never have the tire so many of us seek, not sure it is even something that can be produced?  I think a 3/64 Toyo RR or a Hoosier that does the same is the perfect tire. Should be as good as you can get for about 12-15 sessions and then it will cord.  if someone wants to shave it to 1/32, have at it

[Jim Drago]

These tire threads always seem to devolve into "there's no point in getting a longer lasting tire, since the guys at the pointy end are going to run stickers anyway".    No doubt true.  And if we stop there, there's no reason to try very hard to find a better tire.

 

But for the rest of us with smaller budgets, and regional mid-pack aspirations, we are likely competing against other more budget minded drivers and eeking another weekend or two out of a set of tires might be the difference in running an extra race or two.

 

Until SCCA specs a better tire, I'm running Toyos in the new southeast SMT class.

 

 

Steve

believe it or not, the guys at the front don't like buying tires any more than the rest( well most of us anyway )  The ONLY reason we buy them is we dont want to be at a disadvantage to those that will, which is why I liked the tire limiting program so much

[TylerQuance]

I expect to be in the minority on this forum to be pleased with Hoosier over the 7.5. I find pleasure in watching my competitors outspend me for no advantage. I raced 3-session 7.5s at VIR and have been running last weekend's set all test day with no measurable (lap time) drop in performance. I NEVER would have raced a 3-session SM7 at a big event.

[gerglmuff2]

[38bfast]

I have seen people put 18 HC on 7.5 and very happy with their performance at that point. If you're a regional guy the 7.5 hold up well rubber wise and much better life than the 7.0. Drop off in times is debatable but much better than the 7.0 as well. I don't think a tire exists that the performance curve is flat as compared to HC. 

[Jim Drago]

I expect to be in the minority on this forum to be pleased with Hoosier over the 7.5. I find pleasure in watching my competitors outspend me for no advantage. I raced 3-session 7.5s at VIR and have been running last weekend's set all test day with no measurable (lap time) drop in performance. I NEVER would have raced a 3-session SM7 at a big event.

FWIW, we didnt see anythingh newer tires at VIR, we also ran session 3-4 session tires and was like 6-8 on test day with good grip. However, that was the same with SM7  there. I do not find that at most other tracks though

[John Wilding]

That is amazing. Almost unbelievable.

I guess competitive is relative. Yeah they are competitive against others that have similar cycles. They have great wear depending on the setup. But against a delightful set of fresh RRs. ..........? Yeah you could win on them, but something needs to go wrong with your competitor of equal skill and equipment on fresh RRs.

 

Touche! I guess I've been spoiled that all the front runners in FL are trying to maximize life vs. buying stickers, so we're degrading together. It's been nice not buying tires, that's a fact. 

[Jim Drago]

Tires are junk when tires are junk.. That is perhaps partly determined by income, but FAR more determined by the how competitive the drivers is... That could be competing for 15th..  Just depends. If I was qualified in a position where I felt I couldn't win, i would NOT put on tires regardless.   Even if the tires were free

[TylerQuance]

FWIW, we didnt see anythingh newer tires at VIR, we also ran session 3-4 session tires and was like 6-8 on test day with good grip. However, that was the same with SM7 there. I do not find that at most other tracks though

I first noticed at COTA in Feb... COTA historically liked stickers.