65 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

In terms of lap times, after how many HC's are the tires simply done?  By "done", I mean not worth using for even a practice day.  Is there any data on that or is that even answerable?  My home track is road atlanta if that helps with the answer.

 I have run sm7.5 and RR past 10-12 cycles and they are never really "done"  until corded or flat spotted, just harder to drive and slower

[Todd Green]

 "small" region.    I've not run Toyos since 2013 and the asphalt has degraded and changed quite a bit.  I don't know if the hot ticket is still used tires.  I'll ask our front runners.

 

Heard back from the top runners in our championship and they said they are fastest on stickers (and prefer to race on them). Around heat cycle 4-6 they start to really fall off. YMMV.

[Jim Drago]

Heard back from the top runners in our championship and they said they are fastest on stickers (and prefer to race on them). Around heat cycle 4-6 they start to really fall off. YMMV.

Thats not good news for any of us truthful, but not good  

[Tom Sager]

Well I heard there is a team planning to run the NASA Champ race on Toyo retreads, taller, narrower, more top speed. 

[Jim Drago]

Well I heard there is a team planning to run the NASA Champ race on Toyo retreads, taller, narrower, more top speed. 

I like that

[TylerQuance]

I agree, 4-6 sessions.

Same now with the SM7.5 has been my experience.

[ECOBRAP]

If anyone wants to put me out there at Daytona on 8-10 heat cycle Toyos... for research purposes... I'll be there 

[Alberto]

If anyone wants to put me out there at Daytona on 8-10 heat cycle Toyos... for research purposes... I'll be there 

 

Is anyone stepping up to this challenge?  Give Ecobrap your 8 heat cycle Toyo RR to test this?

[CarbonRacer]

Let's run a Poll for the Tire Rule Set letter for SCCA.  

 

Previous Year Average Finish

 

1 - 10 Place Average Finish: 15 Heat Cycle Tires or 3 Year Date Code

 

11 - 20 Place Average Finish: 10 Heat Cycle Tires or 2 Year Date Code

 

21 - 30 Place Average Finish: 5 Heat Cycle Tires or 1 Year Date Code

 

31 - ??? Place Average Finish: New Sticker Tires

[gehoff]

Hey guys.  FYI, the SMT class in SFR is considering moving from the RR to the Maxxis Victra RC-1.  $652 shipped.  It is at least as fast as the RR through two races.   There are some downsides:  It has a lot more rubber so shaving will be an advantage, I suspect.  The guys behind it want to ban shaving but, shave and one heat cycle probably looks like a used tire.   They are continuing to informally test them.  The main complaint with the RR is the cost and they won't last a weekend in two groups (8 cycles) at the front.   The Maxxis also has stiffer sidewalls but since I haven't driven them yet, I don't know what that is going to do.  Be interested in hearing opinions on why this would be a bad idea.  We are probably going to have virtual vote in the fall.

 

Greg

[gerglmuff2]

Hey guys.  FYI, the SMT class in SFR is considering moving from the RR to the Maxxis Victra RC-1.  $652 shipped.  It is at least as fast as the RR through two races.   There are some downsides:  It has a lot more rubber so shaving will be an advantage I suspect.  The guy behind it wants to ban shaving but shave and one heat cycle probably looks like a used tire.   We are continuing to informally test them.  The main complaint with the RR is the cost and they won't last a weekend in two groups (8 cycles) at the front.   The Maxxis also has stiffer sidewalls but since I haven't driven them yet, I don't know what that is going to do.  Be interested in hearing opinions on why this would be a bad idea.  We are probably going to have virtual vote in the fall.

Greg

 

RR wont survive at the front after 8 heat cycles eh? 

color me shocked, SHOCKED /sarcasm 

[Tim Wright]

Hey guys.  FYI, the SMT class in SFR is considering moving from the RR to the Maxxis Victra RC-1.  $652 shipped.  It is at least as fast as the RR through two races.   There are some downsides:  It has a lot more rubber so shaving will be an advantage, I suspect.  The guys behind it want to ban shaving but, shave and one heat cycle probably looks like a used tire.   They are continuing to informally test them.  The main complaint with the RR is the cost and they won't last a weekend in two groups (8 cycles) at the front.   The Maxxis also has stiffer sidewalls but since I haven't driven them yet, I don't know what that is going to do.  Be interested in hearing opinions on why this would be a bad idea.  We are probably going to have virtual vote in the fall.

 

Greg

I am surprised others have tested the Maxxis?

[Tim Wright]

I am surprised others have tested the Maxxis?

have, or haven't 

[gehoff]

RR wont survive at the front after 8 heat cycles eh?

color me shocked, SHOCKED /sarcasm

What’s your point? The Hoosiers are worse.

[gerglmuff2]

What’s your point? The Hoosiers are worse.

 

as a hoosier user who has never run the toyo, i have always suspected the whole "toyos go 15+ cycles without drop off" smelled of being a fib. 

[Ron Alan]

as a hoosier user who has never run the toyo, i have always suspected the whole "toyos go 15+ cycles without drop off" smelled of being a fib. 

Who's fibbing? No front runner ever told you this...but those drivers 2-3+ seconds off the pace will/can run these tires competitive in their own part of the pack past 15 cycles! I will give you credit for admitting that you have zero experience with the TOYO!

 

 

Hey guys.  FYI, the SMT class in SFR is considering moving from the RR to the Maxxis Victra RC-1.  $652 shipped.  It is at least as fast as the RR through two races.   There are some downsides:  It has a lot more rubber so shaving will be an advantage, I suspect.  The guys behind it want to ban shaving but, shave and one heat cycle probably looks like a used tire.   They are continuing to informally test them.  The main complaint with the RR is the cost and they won't last a weekend in two groups (8 cycles) at the front.   The Maxxis also has stiffer sidewalls but since I haven't driven them yet, I don't know what that is going to do.  Be interested in hearing opinions on why this would be a bad idea.  We are probably going to have virtual vote in the fall.

 

Greg

Mr Hoff...I'm not going to tell who or what to listen to but I hope I've earned your respect over the years to appreciate my opinion! For me personally...I dont care what is decided...as long drivers keep coming out it works for me That said...here are my thoughts for OUR REGION...San Fransisco(SCCA).

 

1. Definition of a UNICORN...a tire that LASTS and WINS! Can we say crazy hot matrix?

2. Best of my knowledge....Maxxis are only available from Maxxis(IUhgg)?? You really want to alienate our few tire suppliers that offer track support??

3. If $$$ are the real objective then you better look at the Nitto...probably will blow Maxxis(and Toyo)out of the water! But wait...they aren't as fast 

4. Rain Tire??

5. The Maxxis after 8 hard cycles in 2 classes will do no better than the RR...100%!!!

6. SSM tire???

 

From what I can see...this effort here is driven by people who double dip often. The 2nd class they run has an OPEN tire rule...why dont they run the tire that gives them the best chance to WIN...and save their Toyo's for SMT...which is the tire the have to run?????. Bobcat...God bless the man...ran HOOSIER A6(qual for sure)...guess what...he whooped all these guys in ITA. 

 

I'm also not going to mention that 12 cycle RR's have beat 4 cycle RR's in this group

 

If I had a vote..which I dont...I'd say neh!  No benefit and only confuses participation! We have Hoosier and Toyo...pick your poison! And in the Open class keep running the Maxxis until you find a better tire...then run that!! Save your Toyo's for SMT!

 

Lets not reinvent the wheel

[M.S]

So many thoughts. Just to be clear, your motivation is to save money but keep all other positives attributes of the Toyo?

This is an impossibility for many reasons, some of which have been mentioned and many others that haven’t been considered.

I can assure you that this would not be a good long term move for the SMT class.

[gehoff]

Ron -  I will email you off line.   Respect?  You and Larry Oka have forgotten more than most of the people actually racing know, myself included.

 

To the rest:  Don't shoot the messenger.  I agree with everything Ron said and I am not driving this, just looking for data.  If you ask the people pushing this they say its cost.  It seems to me in our region this happens every few years: The guys in front want to go faster.  Last time they wanted to change to the Hoosiers.  (Thank god we dodged that bullet.)  But at $1000 per set mounted, it does seem like Toyo is pricing themselves out of the market compared to alternatives.  All we want is cheap and long lasting with no degradation for 8 heat cycles.  For a spec class, speed is irrelevant IMHO.   And the sponsors of this say that tire technology is advancing and being wider spread, so yeah its possible this tire does everything the RR does at a lower price.  Even shaved. 

 

Greg

[Tim Wright]

Hoff, 

 

you said, No degradation after 8 heat cycles.

Is that possible? Might you mean, less than a second/ lap after 8cycles? 

[Tim Wright]

who is going to test the Nitto tire?