54 replies to this topic

[GreenValley]

Let me throw another variable into the mix.

My budget.

I had forgotten to mention that. I am sure that is a major factor is most tow vehicle decisions.

I was thinking I wanted to get a used truck for around 8k and trailer for 2ish. Open trailer that is. So lets say total budget for tow vehicle and trailer is 10k. That is where uhaul came into play. Do I get more vehicle and rent a trailer, or can a good tow vehicle and trailer set up be done for under 10k. Is there too many sacrafices or trade offs ?

Lets also add that I dont want to fix anything up or do a lot of work on the truck to get it or keep it running. Is this asking too much at that price or does my budget have to increase inorder to avoid having to buy twice or pushing what I can afford to the max all the time ?

Thank you all again for the input.

This has helped a lot.

[wreckerboy]

Budget? This is racing, we doan need no stinkin' budgets!

[dstevens]

Your budget seems in line. Check out a used van. For a 2k trailer budget you could buy a new 16' Carson.

[dmathias]

Do not under any circumstance rent a U-Haul trailer. They are crap! You will hate yourself. They have tall verticle side rails perfect for punching holes in floorboards (happened to a buddy of mine) or otherwise destroying the running gear.

[Keith Novak]

I agree U-haul trailers are crap. Plus if you figure $80 a day, pick it up on Friday and drop it off on Sunday and you're out $240. I've seen lots of nice used trailers for $1500 so after about 6 weekends you have no trailer but already spent the money. Plus some weekends are really hard to rent one.

For the tow rig, you can definately get one but it won't be your dream rig. When I shopped, I was looking Ford or Chevy, and starting around 2001 they got a lot nicer. Better power to milage (although towing you still get lousy milage), nicer towing package. I wanted 4wd for snow and dirt roads (might not be a factor), an extended cab (very popular which raises the price), and a few odds and ends. I found one used for 10k with more features than I wanted and very low milage. That leaves you a fair margin for compromise.

Looking at older rigs, you can still get a lot of rig for several grand less but it might not be as pretty, it might have a huge motor that will tow a house but get lousy mileage, not all the features you want, etc. but you can get a very solid tow rig for the $8000-8500 you have left over from the trailer.

If you have cash in hand and time to wait for a good deal, you'll do better. I saw several very nice mid 90s trucks for $5k+ with for example a 454 that I didn't want, and as I looked around to see if I could find more of what I did want, they were sold.

[Keith Novak]

Oh and if you get a van, make sure you can get a proper hitch for it. I looked at some with step bumpers that were very difficult to find a class 3 hitch to bolt on.

[dstevens]

Class 3 is only 5k GVW. Class 4 is 10k GVW. You can get receiver kits or have U-Haul do it. That and cheap moving trucks are an area where they excel depending on the store. If it doesn't have a tow package you'll need to get it wired for trailer lights and brakes if you have them. If you have the tools and are handy enough to work on your race car, you should be able to install the receiver and wiring.

[GreenValley]

So everyone has scared me off Uhaul. I was leary as I have seen their trailers in action and they are not as easy as an flat deck. So now my thought is to get the trailer first, rent a truck the first couple of times out to see what I feel comfortable towing with. Back and forth, back and forth. This has become a saga. lol


So I have a few more questions for you guys about trailers. I am a big fan of not having to buy things twice. I would rather spend a bit more now, than to make due and have to buy it again. So what are some things you have run into with trailers ? Size, ramps, enclosed, open deck etc....


I like dstevens idea of the new Carson for 2k. That was my initial thought. But if I can get a used enclosed trailer for a little more, I might go that way. I also like the idea of shelter at the track. So my question on that is, what is the smallest size enclosed trailer you could use. What problems has anyone that has used the smallest one gotten into that made them wish they got the bigger one from the start. What about starting with open, only to wish you spent a bit more to get enclosed ? The price disparity between the sizes of enclosed is large, but our cars are small.

And this is where the van idea is great too. Get the open trailer and tow with a van and have the best of both. This is where I started getting off my original plan of truck and trailer and started loving the van. The cost seems to be cheaper than a truck, but most I see are 15 passenger vans with windows, or panel vans that look like a guy should be inside with a listening device I see lots of potential of converting the back to storage and sitting and makeshift sleeping quarters. What are the downsides ?

[juliancates]

Without the 4WD and the Crew Cab and with the 3.55 rear end you could tow 10,200#. Most open trailers are 7000 GVW so even at 9k that's plenty. I wouldn't want to tow all the time at my full rating. A national kart team I ran with used up a new F150 in a couple years towing at capacity cross country all the time with a 10k GVW enclosed 28'er. They traded it in for an F250 diesel and have had it for about 4 years now. The Crew Cab is a good thing to have. I've got a Super Cab and I wouldn't want to sit back there for anything more than an in town drive.

Also went with a 2010 Ford F-150 supercrew, but with the 5.5 box. There is a max-tow package that provides extendable side mirrors, normal tow package stuff, integrated brake controller, etc. I was also looking at used vehicles, but got the year-end deals plus the X-Plan pricing, which made it cheaper to buy a new one.

The truck is a great daily driver, although "fun" to park sometimes. It tows my 24' enclosed extra-height Pace with no problem at all.

[RacerX]

Another consideration - storage of the trailer when not in use. Ideally you'll be able to store it at home, but depending upon where you live you might need to keep it out of sight of your neighbors and it is easier to keep an open trailer hidden than an enclosed trailer.

+1 on going well over spec on safety issues. Specifically a brake controller setup with electric trailer brakes is a wise investment and in many states a requirement for more than 3k lb loads. Wiring may take an afternoon, but usually the hardest part is fishing the wire from the under dash controller to the connector on the back of the tow vehicle. For a little extra money I would recommend a proportional braking model. Stay away from any that are not adjustable, not even sure they are made any more. This device is used to adjust the trailer brakes to match the braking power needed for the load (i.e., an empty trailer will require less power to the brakes than a fully loaded trailer).

Also consider a Weight Distributing Hitch - if you know the importance of setting up your car for the track, think of this as balancing your trailer and your tow vehicle. One of the critical aspects of a WD hitch is keeping weight on your tow vehicles steering wheels - without enough weight on the front end your ability to steer out of a bad situation is compromised. Another important related aspect is making sure 10-15% of the trailer's total weight is reflected in the weight on the tongue (otherwise the trailer will be susceptible to excessive sway). In my area I occasionally find WD hitches on Craigs List for 1/2 the cost of a new one. If you go with one from CL make sure it has all the parts needed for a complete setup.

Lastly, a sway control device is cheap for the benefit of keeping the vehicle and trailer from going into a rhythmatic sway each time you're passed by a truck on the highway (helpful tip: usually applying throttle will help get out of this kind of situation faster than letting off the gas). Harbor Freight offers one for about $40 - no reason to go crazy here with a name brand unit, it is a simple concept: add friction to dampen the sway effect (helpful tip: during low speed positioning in the paddock loosen it up to decrease any binding effects).

Good luck, R1chy

[wreckerboy]

So I have a few more questions for you guys about trailers. I am a big fan of not having to buy things twice. I would rather spend a bit more now, than to make due and have to buy it again. So what are some things you have run into with trailers ? Size, ramps, enclosed, open deck etc....

I have a 24 foot Econotrailer open trailer. The biggest things I have found to be issues with a trailer are:

1. Lights. Get a trailer with LED lighting if you have the option. It is well worth the additional cost, if any, for the peace of mind that comes with knowing that your lights will continue to work. I've had trailers with conventional bulbs for years and learned to keep a dedicated trailer spares box with me that included a collection of spare bulbs because the jostling and vibration a trailer sees kills the things in about nothing flat. My current trailer is all LED and I have had zero light failures in the last five years and 40K miles I've out on it.

2. Axles. This is more important if you are buying an enclosed trailer, but is something to watch on inexpensive opens as well. Typical trailer axles are rated at either 3500 lbs. each. Thus, a two axle trailer can support 7K lbs. This becomes critical when you consider that the trailer itself can weigh anywhere from 1400 to 4000 lbs. empty. Add a 2300 lb. car and you start running out of capacity real fast. Many manufacturers allow for upgrades to the next heavier axle (I forget the rating offhand) and it is a worthwhile consideration.

And this is where the van idea is great too. Get the open trailer and tow with a van and have the best of both. This is where I started getting off my original plan of truck and trailer and started loving the van. The cost seems to be cheaper than a truck, but most I see are 15 passenger vans with windows, or panel vans that look like a guy should be inside with a listening device I see lots of potential of converting the back to storage and sitting and makeshift sleeping quarters. What are the downsides ?

It all depends. Vans (I have a SWB window van) definitely lack the "cool" factor, but are priced accordingly. I have found no downside for racing purposes to having a van over a pick-em-up. I love having dry, lockable storage on the way to and from the track - it makes stopping for a meal that much easier, for example. The only downside to the van that I have found is in non-race related activity. When I'm buying lumber, sheetrock, or building supplies at Lowe's Racing Supply it would be easier to toss that stuff in the bed of a pick up. Even then, you can work around it. We built a 10 x 30 deck last year and transported all of the materials home (12 foot sticks of Trex, for example) lashed to the trailer.

[dmathias]

panel vans that look like a guy should be inside with a listening device

I've always thought they make guys look like child abductors, or plumbers.

Good article on towing in the latest SportCar.

[Alberto]

So what did you guys pay for those new 2010 Ford F150s?

[dstevens]

Mine is a 2008 I got new at the beginning of 2009 during the bottom of the crash. They had about 100 trucks on the lot. I was out the door at $20,600 for a fully equipped XLT, big engine, tow package, rear end upgrade, bedliner. The sticker was around $32k. I had them remove some of the bling and fancy wheel/tire package added at the dealer, gave me 2500 for the trade and the rest of it were discounts and rebates.

[Alberto]

Just bought a 2002 Ford F250 Powerstroke with 103k miles. Body is a little rough since it was a work/farm truck but ran very well. Price was $7k. I think I got a good deal. What do you think?



Now I need a trailer....

[Tom Sager]

So what did you guys pay for those new 2010 Ford F150s?

Last June I paid $29,300 for new 2010 F-150 XLT Supercrew long wheelbase w/6.5' box 4 X 4 with a few other options. Sticker was $38,500.

[steveracer]

Just bought a 2002 Ford F250 Powerstroke with 103k miles. Body is a little rough since it was a work/farm truck but ran very well. Price was $7k. I think I got a good deal. What do you think?



Now I need a trailer....

If it runs good and doesn't smoke badly, you did fine. At 103k, it's just getting broken in.

Pull the boot going from the air filter to the turbo and look at the impeller blades, they should be sharp with no pits or dings.
If pitted and dinged, the previous owner didn't keep up with air filter maintenance and the motor is "dusted" meaning it's eaten lots of grit which is bad...

Also, get a spare Cam Position Sensor and throw it in the glove box, 95% of no starts are bad CPs sensors.

I tow with an '01 Excursion 7.3l and love it. It yanks my trailer around like it's not even there, but I've rubbed on it a bit. The expression on the ricer boys faces when they try to go around me and can't outrun the big black truck is priceless!

[Cy Peake]

E-load rated 10-ply tires make a HUGE difference in towing performance. They don't get pulled around by the trailer much in crosswinds although they ride a bit stiffer than a lighter duty tire. My 3/4 ton truck/open trailer don't get pushed around at all as I'm passing semi's.

[Blake Thompson]

Let me throw another variable into the mix.

My budget.

I had forgotten to mention that. I am sure that is a major factor is most tow vehicle decisions.

I was thinking I wanted to get a used truck for around 8k and trailer for 2ish. Open trailer that is. So lets say total budget for tow vehicle and trailer is 10k. That is where uhaul came into play. Do I get more vehicle and rent a trailer, or can a good tow vehicle and trailer set up be done for under 10k. Is there too many sacrafices or trade offs ?

Lets also add that I dont want to fix anything up or do a lot of work on the truck to get it or keep it running. Is this asking too much at that price or does my budget have to increase inorder to avoid having to buy twice or pushing what I can afford to the max all the time ?

Thank you all again for the input.

This has helped a lot.

I just sold my conversion van. It was awesome. 5.2 V8 that got 18mpg empty, 13 loaded. Pulled a car and had a place to sleep. Bought it for $4250 in 2008 and sold it last week for $3300. That's not much usage cost! You can buy a lot of Conversion van for $8,000 if you can deal with the pedophile jokes.

my new-to-me silverado 3500 because my lovely fiance is racing now too is getting about 9mpg in comparison. But it will dislodge major interstate tunnels with the proper tackle.

[red986s]

I also use a 08 Tundra 5.7 as a DD/tow vehicle with a 20' Cargo Mate trailer. Fully loaded it drives great and is very comfortable. Bought the Tundra used at CarMax for about $8k under blue book.

What are you all using for a brake controller?