136 replies to this topic

[Kyle Keenan]

Personally I think we should make those guys who currently run 1:32.5 and faster run 888's and the rest of us get to run the Hoosiers. Sorry Kyle, you made the front pack last race and don't get the fast tires. Since my best is now a 1:32.6 I think 1:32.5 is the right cutoff point. This way we can all play together longer before everybody spreads out.

I had a good weekend, but that doesnt make me a "front runner" quite yet. Still a TON to learn and get comfortable with. By the way, you'd save 2-3 tenths a lap if you werent adjusting that mirror 4 times a lap!!!!

I kinda like bruces idea of adapting a SMT class. Granted, I honestly have no clue as to what class i'd run if we were to do that.

[William Bonsell]

At least that would make the losers known in advance.

Jim - Pretty blunt, but it does certainly appear that way, doesn't it? At least with respect to the R-888's and the RA-1's, I don't think there really was much of a performance difference. I would expect the Hoosiers to be significantly faster than a 3/32nd RA-1.

Bill

[Jim Boemler]

That seems to be the buzz, Bill. I've never been on Hoosiers, so I can't say. Bruce, have you driven Purple? Seems to me that having two legal tires that are far apart in speed is just pointless -- the result would be identical to making it a Hoosier-only class.

OTOH, it's also about the same as running open tire, which seems to have worked in some regions. Maybe a few folks in those regions will chime in with how it's been received there, and what tires end up being used.

[Bruce Wilson]

I've not raced on the SM6 tires, so I'm not really sure. I thought they were smiliar in speed, but in more recent posts by some folks I trust, it sounds like that is not the case. Jim Drago, can you shed some light here?

-bw

[Keith Novak]

That's the buzz from some, but others are saying they're not that much faster if at all. At this point it's just conjecture. Real data would be a good thing.

For the midpacker it really shouldn't make that much of a difference hat all. I have enough experience supported by hard data now between motors, setup, and tires to have swallowed that reality pill that until you're inside about 3 seconds off the fast lap times in the dry at PIR, it really has little to do with the car at all. Improve some of those items and you can go faster, but when the driver can not just slide but also rotate the car through the corner that will beat the car hands down. Unless you're doing that, you're not really working the tires so you aren't really showing their capability.

I have to stop forgetting what I learn between sessions.

[Jim Drago]

The Hoosier tire is WAY easier to drive, it will be the biggest ally of the mid pack driver. The mid pack driver cant get drive the Toyo to the limit, but he/she can drive the Hoosiers easily at the limit or at least 10x closer to the limit than with the Toyos. Those most against the Hoosiers are the ones that will be helped the most, strange.
Pure speed on best possible toyo vs best possible Hoosier, the Hoosier is faster on EVERY track except perhaps ones with long straights. Even when similar in speed, the Hoosier is much easier to driver at the limit, meaning less mistakes, meaning faster 20 laps IMO.

The only place the Hoosier will lose in perhaps on the straight..


Jim

[Jim Boemler]

So in OR, that means that if both TOyo and Hoosier are allowed, the Hoosiers will pretty reliably go to the front. As Jim says, that consistency factor is huge, and will make the most difference in the mid-pack. Correct me if I'm wrong here Jim, but it sounds like you agree with me: if Toyo and Hoosier race together, the Toyo guys don't really stand a chance. In my view what that means is that if you allow both tires, those who can afford it will buy Hoosiers; those who can't will stay home (or maybe trade for SRFs). The Toyo guys will also be the ones with slower motors, and at some point there's just no reason to race anymore.

[Bruce Wilson]

JD, thanks for the clarification.

JB, I can't help but think you are just waiting for this thread to end in total and undeniable disaster

-bw

[Sean - MiataCage]

I got five bucks on my prediction -- put your money where your mouth is!

When was the last time this Clown raced anything?

[William Bonsell]

When was the last time this Clown raced anything?

That's not nice Sean. Jim isn't racing much lately, but I gaher he has been around for years and is free to share his opinions, positive or negative. If Hoosiers are indeed faster and easier to drive, then those who purchase 3 sets over the winter will have an advantage and that is not necessarily a bad thing, It is the reality of racing.

All the more reason to expand the grids either by doing away with Oregon's dedicated G1 or offer a legitimate other SM class within G1. And for what it's worth, I HATE this CSM class which exists for what purpose I am not sure!!

Bill-

[SM Tom]

my .02

I would go for ra1 as the only tire for oregpn region the first half 2012 and ra1 and sm6 for the remainder of the year. This would allow everyone to plan Those that have ra1's on hand get a chance to use them up. By the middle of the year everyone should be ready for new tires and can make the move cost effectively. This might encourage more people to race the first half to use up ra1's

I for one don't want tires to become an advantage or disadvantage and these tires are very different from each other.

And for 2013 and only one tire provided national doesn't change their mind again.

btw.... I don't really care for two sm classes.

Tom

[Bruce Wilson]

Thanks Tom, I do like that idea as it is a compromise for all. Let's keep the ideas coming...

-bw

[Sean - MiataCage]

That's not nice Sean. Jim isn't racing much lately, but I gaher he has been around for years and is free to share his opinions, positive or negative. If Hoosiers are indeed faster and easier to drive, then those who purchase 3 sets over the winter will have an advantage and that is not necessarily a bad thing, It is the reality of racing.

All the more reason to expand the grids either by doing away with Oregon's dedicated G1 or offer a legitimate other SM class within G1. And for what it's worth, I HATE this CSM class which exists for what purpose I am not sure!!

Bill-

Bill...... Not trying to be "not nice" I'm just wondering why there is so much negativity around the subject when he has no dog in the hunt. Its factual not derogatory. Its frustrating for me and others who are constantly trying to build the class up and make it better for all involved to have people come in once or twice a year and start drawing pre-mature conclusions on topics that have not been fully explored. I hope you can understand my concerns. We are trying to work through potential solutions that benefit everyone certainly not trying to alienate or be mean to anyone.... The "front runners" do not want to see anyone leave our sport/family because of unjustified fears and speculation.

I have spent a considerable amount of time in a SpecMiata on the Hoosier as well as the BFG R-1 this year over in Utah and I can guarantee you the sky is not falling. I can say this from personal experience not guestimations and black helicopters.

Respectfully.... Sean

[Ron Alan]

But the question is, what happens if the SM6 is way faster than the Toyo?

-bw

Or slower

Is Jim always a clown? He needs the sad face though

[Keith Novak]

I forget there even is a CSM in the OR region. Why do even care about SM vs. CSM in the first place? I don't even notice. You like racing mixed class fields...for the most part that's a pretty close mixed class.

[Bruce Wilson]

Speaking of laptimes, has everyone seen the new AIM Solo http://www.aim-store...Solo/Solo.html.

$400 for GPS laptimes and can be downloaded to Race Studio and speed traces can be compared to those willing to share data. Doesn't have any data ports for Air/fuel, Accel, etc. but would be huge for those just wanting to see if their really going 95 through T10

-bw

[Bruce Wilson]

I forget there even is a CSM in the OR region. Why do even care about SM vs. CSM in the first place? I don't even notice. You like racing mixed class fields...for the most part that's a pretty close mixed class.

CSM in Oregon Region was for those Conference racers that wanted to cross over. It stood for Club Spec Miata which had an engine claiming rule. Problem is that it is all but dead in Conference with only 1 or 2 folks racing CSM each race.

-bw

[William Bonsell]

CSM in Oregon Region was for those Conference racers that wanted to cross over. It stood for Club Spec Miata which had an engine claiming rule. Problem is that it is all but dead in Conference with only 1 or 2 folks racing CSM each race.

-bw

Exactly Bruce...no one runs in CSM even though many out there, myself included, who could probably run CSM if they wanted. Why not do away with the class entirely within SCCA regionally and hopefully Conference will follow. I don't think I have seen more than 2 entries in 2 years in CSM, either SCCA or Conference. And I do like Tom's suggestion of RA-1's only in regional SM up to say what July 1, 2012, and then either RA-1's or Hoosiers the rest of the year, with Hoosier's exclusively in 2013....I think it's great that both SCCA and Conference racers can cross over if that suits their logistics. I personally would like to see more SCCA events at Pacific as that is my home track. I'd run them the same way many SCCA racers in Oregon and southern WA jump into Conference races at Portland or vice versa.

Back on track with regional tires for 2012, I would vote for RA-1's exclusively in regional events up to a certain date.

Bill-.

[Jason Rawlins]

I'm having some heart ache thinking I will need sets of Dry/Wet RA-1's and Hoosiers all season but if I want to race Nationals and head down to SFR occasionally I don't see any way around that??

I am all for what ever plan will bring drivers back to race with us. I'm not sure that locking down the first half of the year to RA-1's will do that though? There needs to be some incentives to come back, what that could be I have no idea..yet...

I'm liking the idea of a Toyo and Hoosier class... both selfishly so I can run with a single tire (unless SFR stick with Toyo's) and assuming most of the current front runners will be switching to Hoosiers that makes for better and closer racing in the Toyo Class..If this can be achieved by killing off the CSM class and starting the SMT class that that's a vote from me...

Jason

[Jim Boemler]

JB, I can't help but think you are just waiting for this thread to end in total and undeniable disaster

Not at all. Like you, I hope it produces some solution. If you look at another thread, you'll find I was actually the first person to pose the question of what to do on the regional level. I started to write in some detail about the alternatives, and in the process realized that none seemed to solve the problem. I hope my prediction is proven wrong, for the benefit of all.

When was the last time this Clown raced anything?

A little over a year ago, Sean. I've been mostly unemployed for over 2.5 years now, and the combination of several racing expenses coming next year (mostly discussed in another thread) make it so that I will probably never run another race. That's a huge issue in my life, more than you can realize. I don't consider your post "not nice", Sean, but it's nice to know that people like Bill realize that not racing is very difficult.

I am all for what ever plan will bring drivers back to race with us. I'm not sure that locking down the first half of the year to RA-1's will do that though? There needs to be some incentives to come back, what that could be I have no idea..yet...

This is really the crux of the whole issue -- how to maximize the number of people who come back, or start anew. I confess I'm not bullish on the possibilities, but you're focused on the right question, Jason!