101 replies to this topic

[pat slattery]

Tracy, we didn't have any special Mojo, our car was still not up to the standards that Drago claims that top 1.6 cars can accomplish. We were still several HP, down. but my kid can get the most out of what he has.

The biggest downfall we have had at RA in the race is restarts and starts, we got our best start ever, I believe we held our own or gained one position, but on the single file restart, we lost 10 positions getting freight trained by a bunch of 99 going up the hill.

We didn't get the camera working, I wish if someone had the video of that I would love to see it.

That incident with 2/44 didn't only mess up Jims race, although he paid the ultimate by falling out of contention, we and several other lost some positions on that also.

[john mueller]

I'm cool with that if you send Mueller out in a 99! and then send him out in an equal 1.6!

You can send me out in an Enzo & I'd still be mid-pack.

No doubt that talent in these little chick cars overrule most car-to-car differences.

[Cnj]

131 - 133 is the HP number for some top 99's now.

Pat, where do you get these numbers from?

Cnj

[Caveman-kwebb99]

You can send me out in an Enzo & I'd still be mid-pack.

No doubt that talent in these little chick cars overrule most car-to-car differences.

So... are you saying that its possible even plausable that there just may be a dis proportionate number of very talented drivers running the 99 car over the other models?

And no for you 1.6 drivers I am not saying nobody with talent chooses the 1.6! LOL

[john mueller]

So... are you saying that its possible even plausable that there just may be a dis proportionate number of very talented drivers running the 99 car over the other models?

And no for you 1.6 drivers I am not saying nobody with talent chooses the 1.6! LOL

Yes, plausible

[Keith Novak]

I think what we need now is more rule changes to really stir the debate back up and keep the parity arguing going all winter. A really heavy flywheel spec'd for the '99 might be a good place to start.

[pat slattery]

Since most of the pro built cars in the past years have been 99, I think it is safe to say that most of the R & D has been concentrated to that car also. Not much left for the 1.6 to gain, unless a rule change. Don't believe the computers have any potential gains on a 1.6 unlike the 99 cars have also. Correct me if I am wrong

Pat

[Tyler Dahl]

My 1.6 dyno'd 116/103 at the track dyno. I know that was down a little to a another 1.6 not sure what the others were at. I can't say anything about parity since I was so far back all week and the walls scared me. Maybe next year i'll do a test day or two and put a proper setup on the car.

[Bruce Wilson]

My 1.6 dyno'd 116/103 at the track dyno.

Ouch Tyler, That there's a knife -- you need to take a gun next time.

Pat, How much development have you guys done on your 1.6(s)?

Starts and restarts sound brutal.

-bw

[pat slattery]

I have done, as much as I can afford Bruce, and probably more. I get some help from Race Engineering, and try to get different intakes, keep the Tranny and Rear end fresh, Dyno tune, on board AFM, etc. I am not capable of multiple engines, multiple cars, but I do put the time in it. If I had the resources, I would have a 99 car, I would like my son to drive a top 99 and see what he can do with it at the runoffs.

The rumor is that the 99's are still able to cheat the ECU for more power. Don't know if it is true, but they certainly haven't slowed down any. I would like to hear more info about the ECU's from someone in the know if this is true or false

Pat

[dmathias]

If I had Jim's car

Jeez, Kyle, who built that French's mustard-mobile you race? Are you insinuating that JPD saves the best for himself?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Jeez, Kyle, who built that French's mustard-mobile you race? Are you insinuating that JPD saves the best for himself?

No Denny but since you ask I think Mr. Drago shold be INSULTED that you think I can drive as good as he does! I am nowhere near the racer/driver that any of the top SCCA drivers are, but I can hold my own ok at Mid Ohio (when it's not raining)

My car is within .5hp of his car and so that you can read right that was POINT(5)! In scca trim that is!

My reply to Mueller was a bit of an embellishment to make a point, although my cart is very close to Drago's flame throwing machine, I do not beleive that many 99 owners at the Regional level have the car I do.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

but then I also know Denny you just love to stirr up a good pot of Man Drama LOL

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Denny, Well upon having a second thought I do think I have about the same Straight Away skills that Drago has (Is that a skill?)! It's when we would get to the first corner a difference would be evident! Who knows youmight even be better than me in the corners?

[Glenn]

Denny, Well upon having a second thought I do think I have about the same Straight Away skills that Drago has (Is that a skill?)! It's when we would get to the first corner a difference would be evident! Who knows youmight even be better than me in the corners?

Straigh line handling is alwasy a PLUS

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Straigh line handling is alwasy a PLUS

When you have less cornering skills than the other guys it's imperative!

[fishguyaz]

I think what we need now is more rule changes to really stir the debate back up and keep the parity arguing going all winter.

keith i know you are being sarcastic.

however, I am not being sarcastic in my post.

i think we should just officially change the name from SM( spec miata) to SM being Similar Miata; and all stop whining.
I think the truth that i have realized, is that in racing, just like in life, there is never going to be the parity that people expect.
its just the way life is, some people work harder, some are smarter, and some just have the good looks that get them ahead of the rest.

how about we just accept that fact.

life is not "fair" and those who work harder or smarter than others get the rewards for their efforts.

I like it this way.
look at sports for kids where they dont keep score so nobody feels bad when they loose, AND they all go home with a trophy.

the rules are fine, stop changing them, and if you want to be on the podium, try spending less time bitching on the internet, and more time in the garage finding ways to exploit the rules in your favor(not cheating).

the effort some guys put into their cars off the track seems to be huge. I know that many races are lost before a car is even unloaded from the trailer (car prep, or lack thereof)

there will ALWAYS be someone faster, with more $ or a hotter wife.

i am convinced that the parity is a good as it can ever be expected with 4 generations of cars, and that parity at the runoffs will never happen as long as the runoffs is at a track like road america.

rules stabilty is what will bring in drivers or keep drivers away.

THE END

[Alex Bolanos]

The rumor is that the 99's are still able to cheat the ECU for more power. Don't know if it is true, but they certainly haven't slowed down any. I would like to hear more info about the ECU's from someone in the know if this is true or false

Pat

Fact: 1.6 Can control A/F ratio through both the regulator AND the airbox which allows alteration of the curve as well as using the reliable cam sensor for timing.

Fact: 99 Can control A/F ratio only through the regulator, cannot modify MAF to control the curve at all and have to use the unreliable crank sensor trigger wheel to adjust timing.

1.6 cars have much more control to fine tune A/F ratio (and power). If the ECU controls fuel and timing, and fuel and timing are legal to change how would an ECU benefit the 99 over the 1.6? 99s are speeding up because the 99 guys push development and run more races. In SE there are very few well prepped national level 1.6 cars, if drivers aren't driving them and working on them to run at the national level then who's going to develop them? The regional guys are content with aligning/cornerweighting their cars either once a year or only after a wreck and tuning their cars only after a new engine (if ever). If these are the guys "campaigning" 1.6s, that's why they aren't getting faster.

[Zauskycop]

BS flag here Alex. Don't oversimplify things. Computers can be modified and reprogrammed to advance timing according to RPM's. That is HUGE! The 1.6's can optimize their A/F and timing for a particular RPM range, but it is non optimal for others. It was even stated by Dave Wheeler, and Jim Drago, that the rule change for adjustable timing and FP regulators was to get 99's within 80% or so of the "cheater" ecu's! That means there is more out there. Now, given that those two things are adjustable, don't you find it reasonable to consider that, given those adjustments, the ECU programmers may be able to do even MORE??? I don't...

And some of us "regional guys who are so slow" DO corner weight every weekend, and are getting faster. I know you didn't say it to make enemies, but damn that sounded pretty smug....

[pat slattery]

Alex, how come none of the SE guys with those good 1.6's come to the runoffs, but the good drivers from the SE come with there 99's?

Pat