291 replies to this topic

[Blake Thompson]

Do we have a "shoot self in head" emoticon?

:rbuddwyer:

[LarryKing]

You run primarily at Mid Ohio, one of the few if not only track that likes old wore out Toyos

However when the competition is on fresh Hoosiers, old Toyos don't match-up. Plus the occasional SE-Div SCCA roadtrip necessitates Hoosiers even for regionals (no open tire).

[john mueller]

Look, I'm not picking on Pat (really), just the arguments that are being brought up. He has the onions to say what he feels and I respect that a lot AND his opinion.

Also when I made the "shout-your pie hole" comment it was directed at anyone is whining without objectivity.

Plus, when it's implied that I 'caved' you're gonna get the claws because I showed last year that I'm no lackey/yes-man/toe-the-line kind of guy... Notice that some of my biggest supporters are the dudes who were, and rightfully so killing me last year. Last year I suggested to NASA a departure from the norm and got blasted, but it worked out pretty good.

I'm not perfect but I try like hell to to remain focused on what my job is and meet the goals I'm assigned and make for myself. I try to do this while conducting myself and make decisions without personal bias or outside influence. It's hard but the freedom NASA gives me helps.

Why, the 99 at the Nasa Championship was the the fastest car there in the dry. I don't understand the change. Help me understand other than caving into SCCA. Are you now building a 99 John

Nope, I'm not building a 99 (or an 01) at this time for SM... However, I may be building one for endurance racing.

Tires & talent at the 2011 Nationals is why Alex was quick that session. If we had a dry race we may have seen a 99 on the podium (with a 1.6 and a 1.8) and a 01 in the top 10. THAT WAS THE GOAL and the 2012 rules package is no different. For NASA the 2012 changes fit all the criteria we had while getting both organizations (save the tires) on the same page.

I was trying to say that NASA should have stayed the same as 2011.

In NASA trim, 99 gain 1.5 hp and gained 10 lbs ... virtual wash The 1.6 gained 15 lbs, lost 2/3 of one hp or so You should work on your math! So Jim using your math the 10 lbs your 99 gained is equal to 1.5 hp but the 15lbs the 1.6 gained is only 2/3 of a HP.

My 2012 NASA rules adjustment goals:

• I wanted to correct my error with the 99's 2011 minimum weight to make it achievable for more drivers
• I was going to add weight to the 1.6 to keep weight discrepancies between the cars close (NASA goal)
• By the end-of the 2011 season I NASA felt that the 99 need a teeny-tiny bit more power

It's a balance, it's not easy but do'able and last season helped bring it into focus pretty good. The final figures were EXACTLY what I had in mind when SMAC asked my opinion.

I also let my son keep the contingency money and the SCCA awards are certainly better.

Better contingencies, I suggest you look again? Besides, if a 1.6 is the underdog you'll not have access to them so why even try?
I think Nate cleared around $10k in cash & prizes and made it to the finals of the MX5 shootout all in the dead-dog-slow 1.6! I'm just sayin'.. Come-on, it's funny!

[john mueller]

However when the competition is on fresh Hoosiers, old Toyos don't match-up. Plus the occasional SE-Div SCCA roadtrip necessitates Hoosiers even for regionals (no open tire).

Jim was talking about NASA events at Mid-O... Old ratty tires are cheap.

[LarryKing]

IMO the whole "old Toyos at Mid-O" thing is a myth, nothing beats fresh rubber, anywhere.

[edit: I've no shortage of old, ratty Toyos.]

[Caveman-kwebb99]

IMO the whole "old Toyos at Mid-O" thing is a myth, nothing beats fresh rubber, anywhere.

[edit: I've no shortage of old, ratty Toyos.]

I can assure you it is NO MYTH!

[Mike Collins]

Remember the old "Keep on Truckin' " shirts from the 70's? Some of you are too wet behind the ears to remember these...

Weekend Warrior Racing will be printing the "Keep on Bitchin' " shirt. I need a pic of Pat.... Maybe include the Mazdaracers.com address on it as well....
They will sell for $20 and the profits will go the ALS Association.

I want one!

[Jim Drago]

IMO the whole "old Toyos at Mid-O" thing is a myth, nothing beats fresh rubber, anywhere.

[edit: I've no shortage of old, ratty Toyos.]

I agree with you 100% evertywhere except at that track. New rubber will grain so badly the tire will look like skin graphs on a burn victim.. New or even fresh Toyos will be off 1-2 seconds a lap. I have seen it first hand several times... IMO.. the Toyos tires for MId Ohio are have been run a few sessions and have sat at least a month since running. they should also be 2/32 or less. If you have some old 2/32 tires with 3-4 sessions on them, they should be gold for NASA races there. I haven't been there in awhile, so other cans correct me if I am wrong ( I'm sure they will )
Jim

[LarryKing]

How about 2-year-old, 50+ heat cycle Toyos? (a good reflection on my tire budget)

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Flat bald is the fastest. Got me the pole for the Dbl Nat. against Bednarz, Manning, Steyn, Fowler and more. I have found about 10-14 cycle tires are undoubtably the fastest at MO. bought some 2006 tires that were about 1/32 for nothing and ran within .5 of my fastest time in a Drivers Ed while just doing some testing.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

How about 2-year-old, 50+ heat cycle Toyos? (a good reflection on my tire budget)

If you don't want them I will take them off your hands.

[john mueller]

How about 2-year-old, 50+ heat cycle Toyos? (a good reflection on my tire budget)

I'll take this off your hands... I'll send you a UPS labels today!

IMO the whole "old Toyos at Mid-O" thing is a myth, nothing beats fresh rubber, anywhere.

Sorry, you're not even close on this... Newly shaved to a 32nd of cords with 2011 dates were at least 0.7 off at this years Nationals. My fastest set were dated 2009 with about 50 cycles on them.

[LarryKing]

Guys, local autocross kids snap-up used Toyos at $20 a pop. I figure for 'road-racing applications' they're worth $40 each, easily. PM me with your shipping address.

I'm confused now - what in the world were all those guys buying new Hoosiers last year thinking?

Full disclosure please Mr. Webb - what tire did you run in GreatLakes SCCA regionals.

[Danny Steyn]

+1,000 on Drago, Webb and Mueller's comments re MO - if you can even sense that there used to be grooves on that old tire, then it is carrying too much rubber.

I agree that most tracks like fresh rubber, but another track where worn rubber works well is Road Atlanta. For outright qualifying the fresh Hoosier works best, but in the race the bald Toyo is just as fast - At the ARRC, this is what I got on various rubber

• Qually 1 for ARRC - 1.42.7 on one heat cycle Hoosiers in cool morning conditions - slight draft on fast lap
• ARRC Main event race - best lap was 1.43.9 on one heat cycle Hooisers in my primary car. Conditions were warm morning - no draft
• 3-Hour enduro event - best lap was 1.44.1 on bald 6 heat cycle Toyos in my spare car with 1/2 tank of fuel. Note my spare car doesnt have quite the same prep as the primary car. Conditions were warm warm afternoon - no draft

[john mueller]

Guys, local autocross kids snap-up used Toyos at $20 a pop. I figure for 'road-racing applications' they're worth $40 each, easily. PM me with your shipping address.

What year are they?

[LarryKing]

Do you mean "what vintage", like a fine wine?

I'll have to look.

[john mueller]

How to read DOT date on tires

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Guys, local autocross kids snap-up used Toyos at $20 a pop. I figure for 'road-racing applications' they're worth $40 each, easily. PM me with your shipping address.

I'm confused now - what in the world were all those guys buying new Hoosiers last year thinking?

Full disclosure please Mr. Webb - what tire did you run in GreatLakes SCCA regionals.

I ran both ra1's and hoosiers at Regionals. I actually took the pole once at a regional on Ra1's then switched to hoosiers for the race, where I ran .5 slower.

I prefer hoosiers as they make me feel alot more confident in the corners, but they are not really any faster, proved to me 10 fold by Bolanos in the PTE NASA Nat. Final race where I had my HoHo's hummin and he was stride for stride with me everywhere.

I asked another front runner several time if he would run Ra1's and if he thought we could get the rest of the guys to do likewise and his answer was he would have both tires and felt everyone would run hoosiers no matter what was decided.

It really doesnt matter what I ran at the regionals though, as in NASA you dont have a choice everyone will be on Ra1's and old worn out baldies are far and away faster. At SCCa regionals run whatever you want. Nothing stoping you from running Ra1's at the SCCA, unless you are gonna run a national? Are you planning to run a national? then you have a concern maybe if you are. If I was a mid pack guy out for fun and wanted to race both programs its an easy choice in GL's run the RA1's for both NASA and SCCA. just my 2cents

[pat slattery]

I agree with you 100% evertywhere except at that track. New rubber will grain so badly the tire will look like skin graphs on a burn victim.. New or even fresh Toyos will be off 1-2 seconds a lap. I have seen it first hand several times... IMO.. the Toyos tires for MId Ohio are have been run a few sessions and have sat at least a month since running. they should also be 2/32 or less. If you have some old 2/32 tires with 3-4 sessions on them, they should be gold for NASA races there. I haven't been there in awhile, so other cans correct me if I am wrong ( I'm sure they will )
Jim

Your correct, I agree, there I said it Jim

Pat

[Jim Drago]

Your correct, I agree, there I said it Jim

Pat

There is a first time for everything