69 replies to this topic

[LarryKing]

OK, whose pretending to be Boemler?

[Matthew Wolfe]

Blueprinting is the measuring of tolerances to make sure they are within factory spec. Another definition is “a detailed outline or plan of action”. So if you measure or have a detailed build plan you are blueprinting.

Balancing is making parts in the rational mass of the engine match and balance. So if you match stock parts so that the rotational assembly is balanced you are balancing.

There are ways to do both of these without the tech shed being able to prove it has been done.

Just saying.

[Doug007]

The GCR defines these terms. No need to come up with your own personal definitions:

Balance (Verb) – To minimize the dynamic off-axis forces of rotating
components, or to equalize the weights of like reciprocating components.

Blueprinting – The practice of engine improvement achieved by the use
of selected standard parts and/or by optimizing the factory machined
surfaces of stock engine components to achieve the most advantageous
specifications within the normal range as defined by the manufacturer for
that engine.

Within the above definition of blueprinting, any procedures that involve
the following are not permitted unless specifically authorized:
a) The addition of material of any kind to any component (this
includes, but is not limited to, the addition of sleeves/bushings and the
application of anti-friction, oil shedding and thermal barrier/retention coatings).
b ) The machining, tooling or any other physical or chemical modification
(including shot blasting) of any surface that was not originally
a factory machined surface. Glass or other media blasting for cleaning
purposes only is allowed as long as it does not remove or modify the base
material of the original part.
c) Mixing/matching of parts from any other year, make, model or
type of vehicle or engine.
d) Balancing procedures that involve spot machining of all rotating
and/or reciprocating parts (i.e. one rod/piston assembly must remain
untouched).
Note: Under no circumstances may any factory specification be exceeded
as a result of any permitted blueprinting operation(s) (i.e. compression
ratio, valve lift, bore, stroke, etc.).

In practice, engine builders do both balancing and blueprinting per these definitions. However, there is no way to tell that you didn't just get a set of pistons/rods with great balance that are within the mazda specs. The parts that are enforceable are highlighted (IMHO).

Machining/drilling parts for balancing and adding coatings etc. is obviously illegal and inspectable during a teardown. Having a perfectly balanced set of reciprocating components, all within mazda tolerances is possible in a crate motor and therefore unenforceable.

[LarryKing]

That's why I would (still) support sealed crate motors from one source (preferrably MazdaSpeed).

[David L]

I would second that. And to say that it cant be done is BS. and if some one wants to spend their money to buy 100 of them to find the best one so be it.

[James York]

I knew this was coming. First off I am not bad mouthing anyone, just stating the obvious or so everyone thinks. It clearly states in that paragraph that i took directly from the gcr that balancing and blueprinting is not allowed. I can not say with 100% certainty that pro builders are doing these things because I am not in their shops but from what I have heard and seen and know this is what you are paying for. Picking the best set of pistons is balancing wether they are factory or not. Again I am not saying there is a way to stop it, or tech it or even saying it should be stopped just saying that under the rules it is illegal.

So based on heresay and conjucture, you "know", but haven't personally seen, that this is what is going on.

Best stick to mechanican, and leave the lawyering to someone else.

This is a old (way old) topic.

[James York]

I would second that. And to say that it cant be done is BS. and if some one wants to spend their money to buy 100 of them to find the best one so be it.

Besides the fact of a supply problem most lkely (1000 motors at start time), sure it can be done.

How many budget racers running home build junkyard motors do you want piss off when you make them buy a new crate "sealed" motor for $2500, plus install?

[David L]

• Every topic on here is old, didn't you read Danny's 20 somthing pager. This is what we like to talk about. If you want to pretend that a pro motor is built according to the rule book that is fine, we are all entitled to our beliefs, right or wrong.

[David L]

It could be phased in. 3 year time frame if you want to win a national better be a sealed motor. Or can the guys running up front not afford that. Even the guys like me would be glad to purchase a sealed motor.

[LarryKing]

How many budget racers running home build junkyard motors do you want piss off when you make them by a new crate "sealed" motor for $2500, plus install?

Come on James, we've already chased all of the budget racers away.

The way most folks on this site go through motors $2,500 is nothing.

[James York]

It could be phased in. 3 year time frame if you want to win a national better be a sealed motor. Or can the guys running up front not afford that. Even the guys like me would be glad to purchase a sealed motor.

Almost all our races in TX are nationals. What are you saying, dq for everyone with no sealed motor, budget or not? How would you phase them in? Can I wait until the last day (like every other driver) then switch?

I am ok with a well thought out sealed motor program. It won't hurt me, but it will for a lot of small budget guys who do their own engine work and get by on minimal expense.

[James York]

Come on James, we've already chased all of the budget away.

I don't think so. I still see many drivers in our divsion running the same car/motor they did two years ago or longer. They race because they know SM is still the best class going in the club. They love the competition and the size of the class.

[James York]

• Every topic on here is old, didn't you read Danny's 20 somthing pager. This is what we like to talk about. If you want to pretend that a pro motor is built according to the rule book that is fine, we are all entitled to our beliefs, right or wrong.

I am not pretending anything. I say, pony up with your checkbook when you start calling people cheaters and prove what you "think" you know.

[David L]

you are mistaken James, the guys running up front at any race are spending so much money 2500 is a joke. So if you plan on running up front you will need a sealed motor, the guys running mid pack back the motor is not the problem and most of them have pro motors, the phase in will be for the true budget guys who may need the time to get one, but they will not be winning regardless of what motor they are running now.

[David L]

we already know its tech shed legal why waste my money

[David L]

What i think know, didnt you see the classified on this website not to long ago ADVERTISING a car with a MER CRYO TREATED MOTOR

[pitbull113]

Now that the GCR allows overboring the cylinders the next step would be to allow balancing. part of the reason i decided to not run SM was i couldn't bring my engine to the local machine shop and get a rebuild. pro motor,crate or junkyard engine were/are only choices

[Doug007]

9.3.16. CRYOGENIC TREATMENT
Cryogenic treatment of components is allowed unless specifically prohibited in the category or class preparation rules.

No mention of the word cryogenic in the spec miata section...

[Keith Novak]

That's not where the power really comes from. I learned their secret when I blew one up last year.

When I got it on the cherry picker and peered into the big hole in the side, behind of all the piston and connecting rod shards there it was...I saw a house with a car in the driveway. Looked so much like my neighbor's that I thought it really was but obviously you can't fit a full size house in a 1.8 liter engine. This can only mean that pro-motors come equipped with engine gnomes. They build whole neighborhoods in there and somehow make the engines faster. That explains why the head is so much cheaper than the whole engine. They live in the block and just visit the head.

[James York]

What i think know, didnt you see the classified on this website not to long ago ADVERTISING a car with a MER CRYO TREATED MOTOR

No missed it. But it is physically possible to cryo a block/internals.