82 replies to this topic

[Brendan O]

Hi,
I’m just starting out so at the moment I am just doing HPDE events while I learn to go fast in my 2003 Miata. It has the SM suspension, the Hoosier SM6 tire and crappy Hawk HP Plus pads (I have Carbotechs but I’m waiting for the Hawk pads to get used up). Once my lap times are decent I plan on going to the SCCA Roebling Double Driver School.

I have an AIM EVO4 data logger and I use AIM Race Studio software (I like Race Studio but I should have gotten Traqmate system since it is more prevalent here in the SE).

For Road Atlanta, my best time is 1:50.3
For Barber Motorsports Park, my best time is 1:53.2

I am trying to prioritize what I should be working on. I know having a good coach can help a lot but for now I think I can shave some seconds off on my own. For priorities, I think people have said:

• learn the correct line and be consistent with turn in, track out, breaking,
• learn smooth steering inputs, smooth release of brakes, smooth downshifts,
• learn good car control skills – quick hands to correct too much oversteer,
• try trail braking.

When looking at my AIM data, with good Hoosiers, it seems I can easily pull 1.3 lateral G for more than a second and sometimes it looks like I can pull more than 1.4 G. When I look at my lap data, I notice that on some corners at Road Atlanta and Barber, I don’t come anywhere near 1.3G. I go around corner at 0.9G to 1.1G. I think I have a good line and I’m reasonably smooth (except for some heel-toe downshifts like Rd Atl T5).

So … my thought was that I should strive to hit 1.3G at all corners and that should get my lap times heading in the right direction. I read some websites that try to explain lateral G vs radial velocity vs radius of arc and it seems to me that it doesn’t really matter what the radius of the corner is. Given any radius R, there is a speed which will generate the same desired lateral G force (e.g. 1.3G). This is assuming no camber in road and same clean pavement at each corner. Is this idea correct?

Hopefully I can do this gradually – I would slowly increase my speed until I felt comfortable and then I would increase some more. One of the problems with this is that my car control skills are still at novice level and my hands are slow to correct oversteer so I need more practice in a wet parking lot to get more comfortable with slip angles. For example, I don’t think I have ever generated a slip angle around T1 at Road Atlanta with Hoosiers. My fastest apex speed was 87 mph and I pulled 1.4Gs but I don’t think there was a slip angle. Is 90 mph is doable?

Any how, is this the correct approach when looking at my AIM data? Once I have good lateral Gs at each corner then I can focus on trail braking etc.

Also, if anyone has AIM data files for Road Atlanta or Barber that they don’t mind sharing, I’d greatly appreciate it.

thanks
Brendan

[Tom Hampton]

Brendan-

I'm not an expert at all. I'm learning too. I just put up a post on my blog about a recent coaching experience with a very experienced racer in my region. Also, I've done some data analysis in previous posts.

All of these posts can be found here: http://www.tomhampto...fo/tag/cresson/

I'm not saying what I've done is the "best" or even "right". But, its what I'm doing.

I'm also working on a post regarding corner radius analysis, that I'm about half way through. Get the "Speed Secrets" books, and the "Going Faster" boot from skippy school. There's a lot more to it that mid-corner G-loading. These books cover it VERY well (arguably the most thorough treatment).

[Brendan O]

Thanks Tom - i will read the material at your website. I have the skippy "Going Faster" book and really like it - especially the diagrams. Just wanted to see what SMers thought about my approach.
Also, doing a search of top downloaded documents at this site revealed a PPT called "How to go faster". Guess I should have searched more before posting.

[Roger Caddell]

Brendan,There are some AiM Insight training video's here: www.vimeo.com/aimsports

Especially watch the "Webinar - Practical Data Acquisition" for a few SM specific tips.

[Brendan O]

ok - thanks

[dstevens]

Brendan,There are some AiM Insight training video's here: www.vimeo.com/aimsports

Especially watch the "Webinar - Practical Data Acquisition" for a few SM specific tips.

Good stuff Rog, thanks!

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Brendan, as with anything going faster takes alot of work. I had the traqmate system from the beginning, I also had friends sharing their data with me. I was improving on a consistent basis from the data I had to work with.

I invested in a coach, and that made more of a difference in one weekends then all of my weekends with data, and my own abilities combined. He showed me how to view the data and how to compair the data, as well as compaired my data to his right in front of me. I learned how to run the data software much better than I could on my own, I learned consistency, I learned strategy, and I learned in a much shorter time span.

Had I to do it over again, I would have hired this same coach, and I would have hired him much earlier on! Looking at your own data and coaching yourself is tough to do.

[Brendan O]

Had I to do it over again, I would have hired this same coach, and I would have hired him much earlier on! Looking at your own data and coaching yourself is tough to do.

Thanks Kyle. I wasn't sure if I should get a coach while my lap times were still coming down on my own or get a coach when I plateau and stop making progress. I guess in an ideal world, getting a coach early on will prevent the development of bad habits which become hard to fix once ingrained in the brain/muscle memory. So maybe I'll get a coach right away. For those who have done well in the sport (Runoffs podium, gone on to pro racing etc), I'd be curious about their path. Did they all take different paths in terms of when they got a coach or did they all do the same thing and get a coach early. I guess it also depends on natural ability (which i don't think i have in spades).

thanks again

[Tom Hampton]

Kyle-

Can you quantify the difference (for you)? Like Brendan...I'm in this early phase, now. I go to DE events, and get in-car instruction from current racers at these DE events. I analyse my own data, and occasionally get quality data/video analysis from local hot-shoes. Using this approach, my current rate of improvement is about 2 seconds per day at the track while NOT making any changes to the car (combined with the follow-on analysis), I'm still about 6-7 seconds off race pace.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Thanks Kyle. I wasn't sure if I should get a coach while my lap times were still coming down on my own or get a coach when I plateau and stop making progress. I guess in an ideal world, getting a coach early on will prevent the development of bad habits which become hard to fix once ingrained in the brain/muscle memory. So maybe I'll get a coach right away. For those who have done well in the sport (Runoffs podium, gone on to pro racing etc), I'd be curious about their path. Did they all take different paths in terms of when they got a coach or did they all do the same thing and get a coach early. I guess it also depends on natural ability (which i don't think i have in spades).

thanks again

Brandan, I look at it like this... How many people send their children to school to teach themselves? Sure you can get your child the best books, best computer, best technology on the market, but how well do you think they will do teaching themselves to use all of it. The cave man worked hard to make the stone wheel, it took people many centuries later to make the car to go with the wheel. How long do you have, to get to where you want to go? You can plant a sapling in your back yard and water it for years, in what year do you think that little sappling will actually give you the shade you desire for the family cookout? I waited till I was a podium regular to seek coaching, took me 1.5 seasons on my own to get there. There is so much more to racing than lap times, there is qualifying, roling starts, passing, learning new tracks, data, car prep, race strategy, tire management, car setup, and probably some things I didn't mention here. Getting a grasp on all of those things is a hand full. I still have plenty areas mentioned that I still need improvement on, I need more coaching! Even pro drivers have coaches!!!!!!!!!

[dstevens]

The sooner you hire a pro driving coach the sooner your times will fall. Best investments in my racing I ever made were coaching and trackside support.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

Roger, thanks for posting the link! I must have missed the original recording of that video. I own an AIM system and found it very helpful! I need to go get a steering angle sensor now.

[Brendan O]

Roger, thanks for posting the link! I must have missed the original recording of that video. I own an AIM system and found it very helpful! I need to go get a steering angle sensor now.

I will second that. Roger, that is an excellent presentation. Wish I had watched it a long time ago. Thanks for pointing it out. I may PM you in the near future.

[Muda]

Having a pro's data lap for comparison is key to the process. Otherwise, you are trying to compare your progress to your own or others mediocracy and reenforcing bad habits.

[Bruce Wilson]

First off, wow Roger, I wish I had attended a seminar sooner! While watching, I just kept thinking, yeah this what it takes to win in SM... And yes, a coach is the way to go, but that can come in many different forms.

My progression was a little more tempered. Contrary to most popular advice, I started building the best equipment as soon as I could afford to do so. I then bought data and started comparing the "money channels" with a few (really) fast friends and learned the two places on the track where I was slow and started to chip away at the laptimes by learning to be a bit more brave, and the car control came along with those efforts. Finally I worked on making fewer mistakes (over driving, missed shifts, etc.) to put myself in a position to win.

I bought all my data acquisition from Roger and I still think AIM is the best game in town. I got a lower end model that didn't have GPS, but did get several channels for monitoring A/F, brake pressure, steering angle and Throttle position and that was sufficient for getting me where I wanted to be.

Lastly I want to point out that The barrier to entry has not really changed that much in SM, although I fear that perception is starting to change as seen in this thread, i.e. bump-stop sensors and pro coaching, which are all really useful tools to help getting up to speed very quickly. But for the rest of you who are on a tighter budget, start with a plan and get the best bang for the buck first and then add on as you see fit. Bottom line is without data and someone good to compare it with, you're just shooting in the dark!

[Brendan O]

Thanks for the input guys. I will keep mulling it over. I think I can afford a coach now but there are some other goodies I also want to buy. Again, if anyone has Rd Atl or Barber AIM files, I'd appreciate it.

[plane]

I have been learning my Evo4 and thank you for the video link. great system, but a little overwelming for someone new. I have a 92 without an ODB, does anyone have suggestions on the best way to intall throttle and brake sensors? Also, I had my coach run my car a few times and it really does help see where the pros make up time. I am sure a fast friend would alos be happy to do the same thing for you.

[Brendan O]

I am sure a fast friend would alos be happy to do the same thing for you.

Good point - i forgot about that method. I will do that as well. I just have to wait a couple months until car is out of shop and the next event is scheduled. It seems like an eternity to wait.

[Rob Burgoon]

I have been learning my Evo4 and thank you for the video link. great system, but a little overwelming for someone new. I have a 92 without an ODB, does anyone have suggestions on the best way to intall throttle and brake sensors? Also, I had my coach run my car a few times and it really does help see where the pros make up time. I am sure a fast friend would alos be happy to do the same thing for you.

ODB - Ol' Dirty Bastard

OBD - On Board Diagnostics

[dstevens]

I have been learning my Evo4 and thank you for the video link. great system, but a little overwelming for someone new. I have a 92 without an ODB, does anyone have suggestions on the best way to intall throttle and brake sensors? Also, I had my coach run my car a few times and it really does help see where the pros make up time. I am sure a fast friend would alos be happy to do the same thing for you.

Call the guys at AIM and they'll hook you up with what you need.