![Photo](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/profile/default_large.png)
Bump Drafting (evil or opportunistic)
#1
Posted 05-31-2012 07:46 AM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
![Shattering - For those who cant drink tequila Shattering - For those who cant drink tequila](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/safelite.png)
![NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/nasaChamps.png)
![Majors Winner - Majors Winner -](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/sccamajors.png)
![Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do...](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/novelist.png)
![We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/won-race.png)
![Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/verified-driver.png)
![Donor - Made PayPal donation Donor - Made PayPal donation](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/donor.png)
#2
Posted 05-31-2012 08:31 AM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
I can't say I understand the competitive advantage aspect, though. It's not like some drivers are allowed to, and others aren't. It might be true that some would prefer not to, but I know lots of drivers who would prefer not to be passed, and most racing incidents do happen during passing.
![;)](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png)
#3
Posted 05-31-2012 08:56 AM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
- UCFBrett likes this
![Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/verified-driver.png)
![Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/25hours.png)
![We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/won-race.png)
#4
Posted 05-31-2012 09:30 AM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
Also, in the extreme case you could hire a T1 car to push you down every straight.
I have a good onboard shot of that actually.....
Question: If NASA allows it, and SCCA doesn't, why have I, personally, never seen SCCA penalize for it? I have been the pushee and pusher in SCCA races, but never heard anything from stewards.
![We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/won-race.png)
![Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/verified-driver.png)
#5
Posted 05-31-2012 09:33 AM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
#6
Posted 05-31-2012 09:47 AM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
That makes sense. Seems like it could be solved by a drivers agreement before the race, though -- at least in run groups with only one class.The competitive issue was explained to me as a problem in mixed classes. Miatas pushing each other past other cars whose bumpers don't line up. Also, in the extreme case you could hire a T1 car to push you down every straight.
#7
Posted 05-31-2012 10:11 AM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
Question: If NASA allows it, and SCCA doesn't, why have I, personally, never seen SCCA penalize for it? I have been the pushee and pusher in SCCA races, but never heard anything from stewards.
I hate to say this, but "it depends."
In the MARRS series at one point, they decided bump drafting was bad and I think they taped ketchup packets to the front of people's cars....if the packet broke, you were in trouble. (note I was never there, but there was some pretty lively discussion about it.)
At the Pro-IT race at NJMP I bump drafted a few times going down the front straight, right under the starter stand, in front of timing and scoring. No comment from anyone.
I think in our region it's kind of worked out as follows: It's "ok", as long as both parties are ok with it. If someone protested it, there would be an issue.
Vick
www.volko.com
Black SM/SM2/"Slap Bracelet Throwback" #12 in the Northeast....if the car was made in the early 90's it should look like it.
1.6L forever! Bring on your '99's and '01's!
![Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/verified-driver.png)
![We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/won-race.png)
![Donor - Made PayPal donation Donor - Made PayPal donation](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/donor.png)
#8
Posted 05-31-2012 10:46 AM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
You work all lap and get a run on a competitor but, you know it's a small run and not enough to complete a clean pass.
Do you
a) lift and stay in the draft and lose everything you've worked for
![B)](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.png)
c) bump draft and push both cars forward
or
d) push both forward by lifting briefly before contact is made. So the pushed car doesn't move...bump drafting without the bump.
We weren't bump drafting we were just really close.............
I wish we could just bump. I think it's often safer than some of the moves it encourages if your stewards are serious about no contact at all.
- Glenn likes this
#9
Posted 05-31-2012 10:53 AM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
a) the front cars becomes unsettled or
b ) the front car projects off the rear car
then the contact is illegal because it is truly contact at that point in time
However if:
c) the front and rear car are running in lock step (drafting) no bump, but there may be contact, then that has been over looked.
By no means am I saying that it is acceptable. I am just commenting that it has been overlooked.
PS - They tried the ketchup packet thing, I threw a fit and threatend all kinds of paperwork and as the driver rep I told my drivers to get in their cars and ignore the request.
- Glenn likes this
![Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/make-it-rain.png)
![Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys!](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/vendor.png)
![Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/verified-driver.png)
![Sugar Daddy - Made PayPal donation of $500+ Sugar Daddy - Made PayPal donation of $500+](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/SugarDaddy_sd2.png)
![Donor - Made PayPal donation Donor - Made PayPal donation](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/donor.png)
![Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website.](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/beta-tester.png)
![MX5 Cup Participant - Has Participated in a MX5Cup.com Series Event MX5 Cup Participant - Has Participated in a MX5Cup.com Series Event](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/mx5iRacingParticipant.png)
![Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/instigator.png)
#10
Posted 05-31-2012 12:13 PM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
First.. Yours truly has been the recipient of two bump drafting penalties... Sebring 2006 , 5 position penalty for two bump drafts called in and 2 position penalty at Hallet in 2007 for bump drafting. So yes it happens..
Competitive advantage...
Of course it is a competitive advantage, if it wasn't, we would not do it. All the stuff about not being able to pass, so you bump etc.. BS! Just lift and fall in line if you can't pass ( not what I do, but lets call a spade a spade) If No one ever bump drafted, the racing wouldn't be any worse IMO.. The guy who follows to the letter and does not bump draft is at a distinct Disadvantage at tracks like Atlanta, Road America, Sebring and any other track with long straights.
Other reasons for not allowing it.. I SEE WAY TOO many people crash drafting, not bump drafting. More than half of all that bump draft in SM have NO idea what they are doing. If you are going to hit someone in what amounts to a small collision, YOU NEED TO GO AROUND. I have seen "bump drafting" incidents that breaks diff housings. Now, if you ask every SM driver, they ALL know what they are doing. If done right, it is very safe, done wrong accidents and damage can occur.
I bump draft all the time with teamates or competitors to try to get away from other competitors. I do it selfishly to help myself. That being said, if it went completely away, i don't think the racing would suffer all that much.
Jim
- Cnj and plane like this
East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080
![NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/nasaChamps.png)
![Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/sticon.jpg)
![ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/arrc-champ.png)
![Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/series-champ.png)
![BFG Supertour Winner - BFG Supertour Winner -](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/supertour.png)
![Majors Winner - Majors Winner -](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/sccamajors.png)
![Circuit of the Americas Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner -](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/1985_COTA_white.png)
![We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/won-race.png)
![June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/junesprints.png)
![June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/junesprints.png)
![June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/junesprints.png)
![June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/junesprints.png)
![SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/national-champ.png)
![SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/national-champ.png)
#11
Posted 05-31-2012 12:18 PM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
Other reasons for not allowing it.. I SEE WAY TOO many people crash drafting, not bump drafting. More than half of all that bump draft in SM have NO idea what they are doing. If you are going to hit someone in what amounts to a small collision, YOU NEED TO GO AROUND
+1, I'd rather pass than bump
![Donor - Made PayPal donation Donor - Made PayPal donation](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/donor.png)
![Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/verified-driver.png)
#12
Posted 05-31-2012 12:41 PM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
![Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/make-it-rain.png)
![Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/verified-driver.png)
#13
Posted 05-31-2012 01:38 PM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
![Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record.](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/broken-record.png)
![Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/verified-driver.png)
![Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record.](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/broken-record.png)
#14
Posted 05-31-2012 01:45 PM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
- Alberto likes this
#15
Posted 05-31-2012 02:05 PM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
Bump drafting is standard operating procedure for ALL SM teams, especially when qualifying at Road America
I corrected that for you.. Even though you meant us
![:)](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png)
East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080
![NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/nasaChamps.png)
![Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/sticon.jpg)
![ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/arrc-champ.png)
![Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/series-champ.png)
![BFG Supertour Winner - BFG Supertour Winner -](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/supertour.png)
![Majors Winner - Majors Winner -](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/sccamajors.png)
![Circuit of the Americas Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner -](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/1985_COTA_white.png)
![We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/won-race.png)
![June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/junesprints.png)
![June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/junesprints.png)
![June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/junesprints.png)
![June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner - June Sprints winner](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/junesprints.png)
![SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/national-champ.png)
![SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/national-champ.png)
#16
Posted 05-31-2012 02:42 PM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
First.. Yours truly has been the recipient of two bump drafting penalties... Sebring 2006 , 5 position penalty for two bump drafts called in and 2 position penalty at Hallet in 2007 for bump drafting. So yes it happens..
Jim - you should not be allowed to bump at Hallett. It should be fine for everyone else. It must have been a just penalty. I for one, have never been penalized.
![:glare:](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_emoticons/default/glare.gif)
![Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys!](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/vendor.png)
![We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/won-race.png)
![Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/verified-driver.png)
#17
Posted 05-31-2012 03:13 PM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
2011 National points champion!
WWW.MOTORSPORTHEAVEN.COM
#18
Posted 05-31-2012 03:43 PM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
- Alberto and Cnj like this
#19
Posted 05-31-2012 11:54 PM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
So the first race this year we get asked in impound(after qual)if we made contact on the front straight with another car...said yes maybe. The other driver said yes(we pushed him). So, after just setting pole for our first time by .9 sec(clean lap...no help) we were penelized 2 spots
![:grr:](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_emoticons/default/grr.gif)
Don't get me wrong...we will follow the rules, but to be the example after 2 years of
![:whistling:](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif)
Ron
RAmotorsports
![Donor - Made PayPal donation Donor - Made PayPal donation](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/donor.png)
![Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver](https://mazdaracers.com/uploads/awards/verified-driver.png)
#20
Posted 06-01-2012 02:29 AM
![](https://mazdaracers.com/public/style_images/infinite/post_offline.png)
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users