89 replies to this topic

[Rob Burgoon]

Rob and Darin, it's a great idea and we're happy to do this. Please check the schedule here and make suggestions:

http://www.sfrscca.o...tionalsched.pdf

Here's some things you have to work with in your design process:

* SM and STL/ITA/etc can't run in the same group as they are both national classes with people who need to dual-enter (plus is part of the financials required to make our events fly)
* Putting SMs in Group 3 with GT1/SP cars generates significant complaints about speed differential and slow cars ruining their race
* Group 5 is almost at capacity, it can only take 10 more cars
* Races are 18 laps and must complete 45 miles. Add time for pace lap and cool-down lap and 10-15 minutes of clean up between sessions to tow disabled cars/etc in to paddock.

Keep in mind the number of cars who are going to buy a set of Hoosiers and run Nationals in addition to Regionals now that they are in separate groups (at least me!)

Rob, this would work in So Cal fairly easily because you only have 5 groups typically and the car counts are much lower. We unfortunately can't get away with it up here quite the same...



If I am a competitor in Regional Group 7 and I am in any finishing position 7th or further back, I am not going to be happy that I am being arbitrarily bumped by drivers who did not score any finishing positions in the two regional races.

Listen, I believe we succeeded in letting the National entrants run the Festival race. Now you're asking for preferential treatment and a start position that wasn't earned over someone who did complete both races? I'm really working with ya here but I think we're stretching it...

Festival race: Use everyone's best qualifying lap time instead of finish positions. Handicap the National guys by... 2 seconds and make them run their toyos for the festival race.

Overcrowding: Put the National SMs into the empty SRF group and split start. Tell the SRF guys to learn how to attract 70+ cars if they don't like it. This could mean even more money as the national guys double and triple dip into the regional SM group.

Job done.

Also, you've got an hour of slack on Sunday and half an hour on Satuday, and you quit at 5pm. If you wanted another group you could add another group.

[dp35]

As a paying customer and certified member of the peanut gallery, I only offer complaints & occasionally a suggestion. Sorry.

FWIW I'm all for putting the national class racers in the front part of the grid for the festival race. Otherwise beating them won't be satisfying.

[Brian Ghidinelli]

Festival race: Use everyone's best qualifying lap time instead of finish positions. Handicap the National guys by... 2 seconds and make them run their toyos for the festival race.

Overcrowding: Put the National SMs into the empty SRF group and split start. Tell the SRF guys to learn how to attract 70+ cars if they don't like it. This could mean even more money as the national guys double and triple dip into the regional SM group.

Also, you've got an hour of slack on Sunday and half an hour on Satuday, and you quit at 5pm. If you wanted another group you could add another group.

#1 - This change, because it's arbitrary, not in the rules and would impact nearly the entire grid, would probably only be passable with a unanimous petition of some type.

#2 - Most customers are not happy when the product they are sold (dedicated SRF run group) is not what they get (mixed with SM). I know a lot of regions move classes around but we try hard to stick to the published schedule: not only the times but also the groupings. Personally, one of the reasons why I ran/run with SCCA (SFR) is because of this stability and I support continuing it. SRF will lose its dedicated group if its numbers don't rebound but, at the moment, they have it. Nearly as many guys are coming from out of the area for SRF as for SM and we have set expectations (just like we set expectations with SM drivers that the event would likely fill so register early).

#3 - A single National run group requires around 1:45 of total time (practice, qual and race with clean-up time for each). A second National requires another 75 minutes or so. The track contract stipulates that we end at 5 AFAIK. I don't know if you're considering lunch "slack time" but Saturday we run from 8a to 5p. I'd love to find another 2.5-3 hours of track time in the weekend too...


All of this stuff is good feedback and things we're going to take into account for next year. I personally have a lot of enthusiasm for this event as a big west coast event, as our spec miata festival and as our infineon event and I'm committed to making it better. I'd consider a sell-out a pretty good start but no doubt we can improve in 2013.

[Rob Burgoon]

Can be done both safely and fairly without spending more money. Making it work politically is your challenge, not the challenge you presented me with.

It's absurd that the SRF group should expect to keep their exclusive group when the other closed wheel groups have 48, 55, and 70+. At 25 they can to take one for the team this time. Put a clause in their deal that they are subject to refugees if they can't hit 50% capacity and another group hits 100%.

For next year what I would do is have a pre-approved plan for overflow that triggers at 50 cars or so. I certainly wouldn't mind 4 or 5 SM races in a weekend.

[Ron Alan]

As I feared they would decide to, my work is flying me somewhere that weekend, I'm out for sure.

Ron, you're crazy if you think that 45 regional cars wont try to race the 15 national cars.

Split start no, mixed start of course. Only lappers will be an issue this weekend with split start.

Brian...glad to hear it sounds like the National guys will be aloud to run the festival on toyos. But I truly think you will piss more people off having them start in the rear than mixing them in from near the front. I like the current format of grid position for the festival race...it rewards consistant good, clean driving. But we all know where those who are choosing to run the National race should be in grid. Maybe someone in the top 15 will complain if we slot them in but after that I don't really think many or any will mind. Reward the top 10 guys in the regional races and slot the first National guy in at 11th...and then some random spread going back? Only suggestions and opinions

[Rob Burgoon]

Split start no, mixed start of course. Only lappers will be an issue this weekend with split start.

Brian...glad to hear it sounds like the National guys will be aloud to run the festival on toyos. But I truly think you will piss more people off having them start in the rear than mixing them in from near the front. I like the current format of grid position for the festival race...it rewards consistant good, clean driving. But we all know where those who are choosing to run the National race should be in grid. Maybe someone in the top 15 will complain if we slot them in but after that I don't really think many or any will mind. Reward the top 10 guys in the regional races and slot the first National guy in at 11th...and then some random spread going back? Only suggestions and opinions

Yep, also, with the whole "unanimous decision" thing, this festival race is a fun race for 0 points right? Brian, you're the SFR SM leader. Lead. Make a defensible decision and ask forgiveness later if needed.

[dp35]

Festival grid:
P1: Top finisher in 2 Regional races
P2: Top finisher in 2 National races
P3: Regional #2
P4: National #2
.
.
.
etc.

Bring it on.

[Ron Alan]

Festival grid:
P1: Top finisher in 2 Regional races
P2: Top finisher in 2 National races
P3: Regional #2
P4: National #2
.
.
.
etc.

Bring it on.

Waiting for Kens reaction to this My effort was to find a safe compromise. This has evolved from no National cars in the Festival race to, ok, they can run from the back(which for sure could be ugly)which I believe is where we stand? My idea of slotting cars in the middle makes things safer but leaves the front regional guys free to race(at least for awhile) among themselves. Darins idea of course is the way it should be for a true West coast shoot out. Maybe a drivers meeting on Fri with a show of hands on several ideas?

Only draw back I see is this doesn't guarantee the fastest drivers end up in front with the current format(mechanical in either race or incident). For Regional racers that would be the breaks but National guys would benefit from having a worst case scenario start of 18th. If the goal ends up being a true top to bottom speed grid, maybe fast lap would have to be used(with an agreed upon penalty if the Hoosiers do end up being faster).

This is a rare occasion you will have most of the fastest drivers North of Monterey(with a few good representatives from the south)and south of the Canadian border(past and present) all together at once. An opportunity exists to really showcase this talent in one race!

[Sacslider]

Ultimately we need to remember that the national guys have chosen to run in that class for their own reasons. If they want to they can choose to run with the big group by doing so on Toyos in the regional class. With the combined finishes setting the grid there is no truly fair way to integrate national guys into the order that is fair to everyone. If a qual session could be done to allow for everyone to set a grid that would work. Otherwise it becomes a crap shoot.

[Ken SM94]

Ron, I don't really care where I start for the Festival race. I was only pointing out that starting a bunch of faster guys at the back of a 70 car field didn't seem like a great idea, but we're big boys :^)

Maybe you should just make the guys that ran Nationals do a split start on Toyos and we'll have our own race. (joking)

I did like Darin's idea but I get the complications and possible rumblings from others.

Here's another Idea... Make the first qualifying session count for the Festival grid and let the National guys come in and swap to Toyo's at the end of the session, or something like that.

[Sacslider]

Brian-

Is there a BBQ on Friday night? If so what time?

[Bad Rusty]

Craig,

Details on the BBQ should come to your email from the SCCA office. Here is is for you;


RAFFLE : If you bring a prize to the raffle, you are entitled to draw a prize from the raffle. Please let lisa@sfrscca.org know if you need a certificate made up for your prize. I will be in the office today and tomorrow. This year, it will be held at Rod Dykhouses’ motorhome ( follow the noise or the people if you don’t know where you are going;)

DINNER : Each driver gets a ticket for himself and a guest. Other tickets will be sold @ $20 each. Please email Lisa if you need extra tickets. Bring chairs, a guest and a prize,,,, simple.

PHOTO : On Friday afternoon, after the EVEN qualifying session, all cars are to meet back at GRID to go on track for the group photo.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Lisa

Lisa Diamond

[Brian Ghidinelli]

This is nuts... I think we're going to cross the 300 entry mark before registration closes today. We're at 295 Sat and 296 on Sunday:

https://www.motorspo...E2C61441E598017

I think this will be the biggest SFR event I've attended in my limited racing history. Pretty impressive that our group alone accounts for 24% (not counting double entries in other classes). June Sprints had 349 entries last month as a single race weekend.

[Sacslider]

Craig,

Details on the BBQ should come to your email from the SCCA office. Here is is for you;


RAFFLE : If you bring a prize to the raffle, you are entitled to draw a prize from the raffle. Please let lisa@sfrscca.org know if you need a certificate made up for your prize. I will be in the office today and tomorrow. This year, it will be held at Rod Dykhouses’ motorhome ( follow the noise or the people if you don’t know where you are going;)

DINNER : Each driver gets a ticket for himself and a guest. Other tickets will be sold @ $20 each. Please email Lisa if you need extra tickets. Bring chairs, a guest and a prize,,,, simple.

PHOTO : On Friday afternoon, after the EVEN qualifying session, all cars are to meet back at GRID to go on track for the group photo.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Lisa

Lisa Diamond

Thanks Lisa. Confirm dinner is Friday night or Saturday?

This is nuts... I think we're going to cross the 300 entry mark before registration closes today. We're at 295 Sat and 296 on Sunday:

https://www.motorspo...E2C61441E598017

I think this will be the biggest SFR event I've attended in my limited racing history. Pretty impressive that our group alone accounts for 24% (not counting double entries in other classes). June Sprints had 349 entries last month as a single race weekend.

Well I sure hope I don't hear any of the SFR Board Members complain about losing money at this track again... Although the lack of paddock space seems to already be a concern.

[KyleLoustaunau]

What time does the first session go out for testing tomorrow?

[Ron Alan]

We are group 3 which i believe is around 9:30...4 sessions and we are the last out at the end of the day

[Ron Alan]

Help! Finally got around to hooking up a cool suit and realized I have 2 different systems. The cooler we were given is "cool shirt" and the shirt we bought is the F.A.S.T. system. So the male/female connectors are not the same. I'd prefer to keep the shirt fittings(male)as factory and cut the cooler side fittings. So what I need is the female connectors for the f.a.s.t system if anyone has these/this???? I will check winecountry tomorrow when we get to the track but if anyone has this not being used and is coming this weekend please get in touch....THANKS!!

[Rob Burgoon]

Help! Finally got around to hooking up a cool suit and realized I have 2 different systems. The cooler we were given is "cool shirt" and the shirt we bought is the F.A.S.T. system. So the male/female connectors are not the same. I'd prefer to keep the shirt fittings(male)as factory and cut the cooler side fittings. So what I need is the female connectors for the f.a.s.t system if anyone has these/this???? I will check winecountry tomorrow when we get to the track but if anyone has this not being used and is coming this weekend please get in touch....THANKS!!

If all else fails you could head over to home depot and see if you can cobble together something that will press together. The quick disconnects are nice to have, but put together something that can be ripped apart if the driver needs out.

The connectors can be bought from CPC, can probably be overnighted. Local vendors might have the stuff too.

[William Bonsell]

Incredibly impressive numbers...can't believe the size of Group 7.....but, even with those numbers, can anyone take down Mr. Sutherland?? Go Ken!

And good luck to all the Oregon boys....be safe everyone.

Bill-

[Brian Ghidinelli]

Help! Finally got around to hooking up a cool suit and realized I have 2 different systems. The cooler we were given is "cool shirt" and the shirt we bought is the F.A.S.T. system. So the male/female connectors are not the same. I'd prefer to keep the shirt fittings(male)as factory and cut the cooler side fittings. So what I need is the female connectors for the f.a.s.t system if anyone has these/this???? I will check winecountry tomorrow when we get to the track but if

Ron - won't help for this weekend (unless you overnighted...) but McMaster-Carr sells the parts you need. Here's a recap with part numbers at the bottom: http://www.ghidinell...ol-shirt-system