130 replies to this topic

[Mitch Reading]

Mike, or anyone....

What is the status of the MX-5 cup (Playboy cup) for 2013?

Mitch

[Todd Lamb]

It's on like Donkey Kong.

[Sebastian Landy]

Congratulations to Chris Windsor for his first 5th place in Mx-5 Cup and for the rest of the field for some fast times and good results! Sorry I couldn't be there to race as well, it looks like a ton of fun. Hopefully the racing stays clean for the rest of the weekend. If anyone knows, what happened to Tom Neel?

[Todd Lamb]

Neel lost a wheel exiting T6.

Great race yesterday!

[David L]

Does anyone know what happened to Chris Windsor in today's race? Saw crash in results?

[Sebastian Landy]

I don't know, but congratulations to Stevan McAleer for winning the 2012 Playboy Mx-5 Cup and being Rookie of the Year! Great race by everyone.

[SaulSpeedwell]

SM5 is the future of Spec Club Racing in the SCCA. Mazda made this car from 2006-current and we have one more year to go. There will be a lot of Playboy MX5 Cup cars that will get dumped into the market place when the new ND comes out.

Parity is great in this class. The sealed engine program works!!! The only only open item on the entire car is the tire and that is likely to stay open for a long time. Only the size is speced.

All parts on the cars are all the same. You pick....seat, steering wheel and brake pads and tires. The cars and HP output are all the same.

Dead thread revival - Spec Miata WAS the future of Spec Club Racing, but politics screwed it up. Instead of having a "sweet spot" that lasted as long as FV, SRF, FF, etc., it only took a handful of years to "screw up" SM.

If SM5 fixes COTY problems and parity problems and prep creep and cost creep problems, it is very enticing ON PAPER - but the bigger problem that SCCA (and presumably Mazda's political push) underprioritized is that most of your potential entrants already blew their wads on 1.6s, and then 1.8s, and then 99s, and now I have people calling me asking me to guess when the 01-05 will be "COTY".

The root cause here is movers and shakers at Mazda (and other OEMs) wildly underestimate the value of having an enthusiast base racing their 10-20 year-old cars. BMW made the same mistake, they don't have anything in their current lineup with as much enthusiast appeal as E30s and E36s had. Honda pissed away the good thing they had with Civics and Integras. Apparently "marketing geniuses" don't comprehend that brand equity relies as much or moreso on what you ALREADY SOLD, versus what you are currently selling - and that is especially true when it comes to racing, and enthusiast acivities, and the ever-elusive "younger buyer". Every 20-something I know that is seriously considering a BR-Z and actually has the coin to buy one ... they are already in a ratty old WRX, Impreza 2.5, etc., that they bought used years ago.

"Appealing to younger buyers" doesn't usually happen with your CURRENT product line, it happens with your 2-3 generations-old product line.

Does anyone buy '06+ Miatas because they are raced in SCCA or Playboy Cup? I don't think so. I think more Mazdas are sold "by referral" because dorks like us are still racing and driving RX-7s and 1990s Miatas, and we tend to have another more current Mazda or two that we drive on the street, where we can actually have an impact on brand image and sales. I love my Mazda3 hatchback, but not because McClughan's ugly purple/yellow SEDAN won the Runoffs.

By constantly trying to introduce newer cars and more classes, SCCA and Mazda are eating their own children ... instead of cannibalizing classes you already "own", you need to find a way to drag people OUT of OTHER screwed-up classes.

Otherwise, "Mazda classes" (and maybe even "Miata classes") will become much like all the ridiculous formula classes .... 10 classes of 3 cars each, instead of 1 class of 30 cars.

SM5 will need serious subsidization (or 5-10 more years of depreciation) to even moderately take off ... but if all you wanted was yet another SCCA class, then you've already met your goal ... and if Mazda just wants a Runoffs Championship for the current Miata ... just pressure the CRB/BoD to give it enough rules welfare to beat whatever else it will run against.

P.S. Compare Mazdaspeed parts cost from 2008 to now ... the "Mazdaspeed Inflation Index" seems to indicate +30% in 4 years???

P.S.S. The Daddy Warbucks Racer does not want to hang a picture of a Miata behind his mahogany desk. The Spec-Like Miata-Like racing class "product" needs to cater to people below the 1% ... the same people that got geeked out about taking homebuilt 1.6s to the track for $10K. Eliminate EVERY unnecessary cost-creep item with militance. Often that means "spec", but sometimes it means "open".

[RussMcB]

I'm not sure how relate-able this is, but in the FF class, Honda (actually, HPD) will sell you a zero mile, complete Honda Fit 1500cc crate engine for $2500. When I converted my FF from old Ford to new Honda, it was pretty awesome getting a new Honda engine for $2,500. It would be awesome if Mazda could do something similar.

The Honda crate engine is a looooooong block, included pretty much everything - intake, injectors, oil pan, flywheel and clutch. It did not include alternator, harness or ECU.

Fitment of the Fit engine into the formula car chassis required a few special and expensive parts*, but those would not be needed in an spec Miata class.

* Required race parts for formula chassis: Dry sump, intake, exhaust, harness, ECU.

[Keith Novak]

While not quite that great a deal, Mazda already gives us great prices on parts. Not only can you get any part on the car for a good price and shipped the same day, if you can't find it in their parts catalog, with a phone call someone knowledgeable will find it for you. You certainly can't knock their support for the people racing their cars.

[FTodaro]

While not quite that great a deal, Mazda already gives us great prices on parts. Not only can you get any part on the car for a good price and shipped the same day, if you can't find it in their parts catalog, with a phone call someone knowledgeable will find it for you. You certainly can't knock their support for the people racing their cars.

I am not sure I would go as far to say that Mazda gives us great prices on parts. We are required to buy OEM parts, and for example a 130.00 for a set of standard piston rings for a 99 is not a great price in my book. there are plenty more examples, but I feel comfortable in saying that they are making a good buck on the parts end of this deal.

[LarryKing]

Speedwell for president (of something)

[Forrest Landy]

There should be at LEAST 9 SM5 at every MARRS event next year if everyone returns plus a few new ones that are confirmed..... This is a growth from the 5-6 we had this year. The racing has been closer in SM5 than SM at the club level I know nationals are a different story. Hopefully people will see this and join in considering so far the increased parity rules have worked.

[Marc Cefalo]

Marrs is the beginning of SM5 taking hold. The next step is for it to spread both north and south to other regions, divisions and so forth. Back in early 2000, spec miata was an unknown in Nediv except for a few handful which would show up and run as ITA cars. I remember them making their own split starts at lime rock.....now look at where we are with numbers.

Planet Miata will have one sm5 this year to add to the mix with more possible. Eventually it will grow, but like Rome, the class won't be built in a day.

[Jim Daniels - FIG]

What Glenn said. Unless we seal the motors in SM, this is the class that will prevail over the next 5 years.

[skeeler]

I have a few ignorant questions, if you don't mind.

• I can't seem to find the rule set for Spec MX-5. Can one of you point me to it?
• Since the NCs have come with 2 slightly different engines (2006-8 and 2009-13), which one is the crate engine from Mazdaspeed?
• How are ECUs controlled? Are they all left stock, or is there a standard tune? Since there have been two different engines, how is this handled?

Thanks.

[Mike Collins]

The ruleset is in the GCR it has its own section.

Mazdaspeed updated the sealed engines as the new ones came out. if you order one now you get the new one. Some of us have the old one. They dyno the same. The bottom end on the new supposedly is stronger.

The only allowable ECU update to run is the Playboy Cup update from SCCA Pro. We are working on trickle down technology. We can test for the Playboy map.

[skeeler]

Thanks, Mike.

Yep, the '09+ engine has stronger crankshaft, rods, and pistons. Firmer valve springs, too. The stock redline is set 500 RPM higher, which gives and extra 1 BHP, according to Mazda. The higher redline is very useful in autocross, where you spend most of your time in 2nd. Probably less useful on the track, since it doesn't get you any extra power.

Very interested in trying out an SM5 car when I decide to get involved in W2W racing. Seems like the sealed engines are key to keeping the cost from running away. I have an NA 1.8 and an NC with the revised engine, and the torque and power delivery of the MZR 2.0 is much easier to exploit.

[Forrest Landy]

On the note of the ECU I think David Jacobs ran a stock one all season he had no trouble competing. So I don't think it makes a huge difference in performance.

[Jim Drago]

On the note of the ECU I think David Jacobs ran a stock one all season he had no trouble competing. So I don't think it makes a huge difference in performance.

Forrest
I think you will find it may not be now, it certainly will be at some point, If not already. It became a "big" issue in MX5 cup, well big enough that they needed to do something and that is why they came up with the flash.

[Mike Collins]

We are working on adopting the same flash protocol as the Playboy Cup. We just need to get our numbers up to warrant it.