70 replies to this topic

[Rob Burgoon]

Had you not thrown the first post in and left out the last 2 sentences of this post...you might have a point. But your uncontrollable need to be a wise-ass or smart-ass makes you look like a dumb-ass.

Need I remind you of all the complaining you've done on this forum? 3 day SCCA events? on track contact and/or racing incidents? We have spoken in person and I found you to be a reasonable young guy...even after you threw a few darts my way I still gave you the benefit of the doubt and didn't respond back. It's very easy to get your point across without digs or insults unless of course it's a close buddy them all's fair...and most of us recognize this between friends.

Do you really want to be THAT guy? When your not on some "mightier than thou" trip you have well thought out points and info. Your call...

If a race car driver complains about not being competitive and then cites being lazy and unable to drive according to grip as excuses, I'm sorry, but they are going to get grief.

[Rob Burgoon]

its another tire deal mo money

Agreed.

[Steve D]

Rob -

Life must be tough whe you are an a__hole and suck at reading comprehension.

Look back at my post. I was offering a possible explanation for why we aren't seeing as much crossover as I would like. I was not complaining about the effort racing takes. Sheesh.

Andrew -

You identified the biggest conundrum. Mueller and Drago led the charge to get the rules exactly the same. Unfortunately, NASA's contract effectively prevents Hoosiers. It's a great disappointment to me.

[Andrew Charbonneau]

yes indeed steve it is a condom dame that teret i ment conundrum . For those who look at the young bull please forgive his stupid comment they make it easy for me to look better

lol

[High Chair]

I wish it were that simple. I've driven both brands in the last year and they drive quite differently. Aside from not wanting to start over each weekend trying to get the feel of the "other" tire on the ragged edge, re-learning braking and corner entry, etc., I would hazard a guess that anyone who aspires to the top half of the grid would want to change their alignment/setup to suit the tires (for tire wear as much as handling benefit).

For that reason, cross-over is a biatch. As SM director in the SE, I wish it weren't.

You would be incorrect on just about every part unless you are complete newbie. Bouncing from tire to tire has never been a problem for me or any one I know.

[Steve D]

Jamie -

I readily admit there is a lot I don't know about this stuff. To me the tires feel different. Maybe setup changes aren't necessary. Fowler didn't used to let me touch my car so a lot of this is new to me.

By the way, I finished one spot behind you at the ARRC so I guess we were both mid-pack that day?

[Rob Burgoon]

Rob -

Life must be tough whe you are an a__hole and suck at reading comprehension.

Look back at my post. I was offering a possible explanation for why we aren't seeing as much crossover as I would like. I was not complaining about the effort racing takes. Sheesh.

Andrew -

You identified the biggest conundrum. Mueller and Drago led the charge to get the rules exactly the same. Unfortunately, NASA's contract effectively prevents Hoosiers. It's a great disappointment to me.

No but you're suggesting thats a reasonable argument.

[LarryKing]

The complaining takes place on-line when people are bored. At the track, for the most part, it's just fun.

I think contact could be decreased by having a driver's meeting at every event, and having chief stewarts who won't tolerate on-track grab-ass by putting some real teeth in consequences.

You shouldn't get mad at a baboon for eating a banana. It's just their nature, and it's a waste of your time.

<3 <3 <3

[Todd Green]

NASA has a contract with TOYO through 2016

Because NASA chose to reup the contract: http://www.nasaprora...inue-as-th.html

We all could have been on Hoosiers next year. As others have said, follow the $$$.

[john mueller]

Because NASA chose to reup the contract: http://www.nasaprora...inue-as-th.html

We all could have been on Hoosiers next year. As others have said, follow the $$$.

Todd, your posts usually are thought out better and make more sense... Are you looking to have a pissing contest? So really, nothing happened before "NASA reup'ed" to create the difference between the two organizations (http://www.hoosiertire.com/SM2012.htm)? Yeah, that's what I thought...

Does it really matter anyway? Some folks choose to run with NASA for their personal reasons, some choose SCCA and some choose to run in both. Yes, part of my job is to help grow and maintain SM car count in NASA but that comes after doing what I think is right for the class. (Anyone really think I enjoyed being called the guy who ruined the class in 2010?) While the choice to extend the Toyo contract was made waaaaaay above my level (remember, I'm a volunteer), I think for NASA's clientele it was the correct choice and supported it when I was asked my opinion... Especially considering the rich tire contingencies and future plans.

[Todd Green]

Does it really matter anyway?

First of all, I didn't say it was your fault or blame you so please don't take it personally. I think you are a good guy and have the class' best interest at heart.

But, yes it does matter. If we have to run on RA1s again next year, I'll be taking a break and just doing a race or two, maybe with the SCCA. Many in our region seem to have already made that decision this year. Our fields have been decimated. We're struggling to get 5 people in SM. I went through the results for the last three years and tried to get in contact (or delegated to a few others since it's a long list) with all the racers to get them out and find out why they weren't coming out. A good chunk of them didn't want, or didn't have budget to switch to Toyo's. Many had tires left over from the previous year that they could no longer use etc. Didn't want to have to deal with shaving tires and finding the magical depth/heat cycles to get them fast at Miller, not to mention premature cording issues etc. Of course many had other reasons: got married, bought a house, blew their motor and are rebuilding, swtched to a different class, just plain burned out, etc. But tires came up more often than I would have liked. You could easily do the full race season at MMP on two sets of BFG's. I'm on my 3rd set of Toyos (plus rains) and we still have 3 months to go (6 race days). Rob can make fun of people, but the bottom line is that it costs us racers.

So could you please explain what isn't thought out in my post? You guys worked hard to get us on the (almost) same rules, yet even though the SCCA announced the change to Hoosiers (again due to member input) and NASA had the chance to follow suit, but chose not to. How is this better for the racers? What I stated is true. We all could have been on Hoosiers next year, it wasn't like NASA was locked into a contract. Sames tires = fewer wheels and easier crossover = more racers = better racing = fields grow = profit!

Especially considering the rich tire contingencies and future plans.

The tire contingency only really helps if you can get large fields first. I'd be better off running PTE and getting 2 BFG's every race rather than $40 in Toyo bucks. I really, really hope future plans include a molded tire. Anything you can do to elaborate on "future plans" would be most welcome.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

No but you're suggesting thats a reasonable argument.

So if you dont agree that makes it unreasonable? You must be the new model of Reasonable? I think we would all agree YOU are the most unreasonable Babbon on the forum, followed closely by Me and Charbos, we just idiots not monkeys...

Seriously eat your bananna and let Steve D, the coolest of all SM directors have an opinion, remeber they are lake assh oles we all have them, we all have you as proof.

[pat slattery]

I will take the RA1 over the Hoosiers, anyday. Just wish Toyo had the same tire that didn't require shaving.

[DrDomm]

I will take the RA1 over the Hoosiers, anyday. Just wish Toyo had the same tire that didn't require shaving.

It's so funny cause we were complaining about the Hoosiers, and now the NASA guys are complaining about the Toyos. I don't have enough experience to know who's right, but I think it's interesting that tires are so critical...not just to laptimes, but to participation. Maybe there should be no National spec tire.

[LarryKing]

Maybe there should be no National spec tire.

I like it!

[Bench Racer]

Maybe there should be no National spec tire.

And maybe WE should all remember what Mr. Daniels said before Spec Miata became a national class, be careful what you wish for.

[FTodaro]

I am not sure what NASA or John have Brewing, but a compromise that would help would be to allow open tire in the regional nasa races require Toyo for the Nats. the people who are interested in doing the nationals are going to run toyo to get the experience of adjusting on them the guys who are not, may not care as much. Our SCCA region has open tire for regionals and it is nice to be able to use up what you got

Compromise can be a good thing.

[LarryKing]

NASA really doesn't have 'regional' and 'national'. I believe they consider all their events to be nationals, or perhaps "Pro Racing".

[Todd Green]

I will take the RA1 over the Hoosiers, anyday. Just wish Toyo had the same tire that didn't require shaving.

I'll take BFG's over all of them. Just as fast as the Hoosiers (give or take), wear like iron. Don't flat spot easily. They are widely available so you aren't stuck shipping from far away from the few shops that give you a decent shave.

No matter what, IMO we need to be on a tire that doesn't require shaving. That's just nonsense. Waste of money, time, and resources. It is the most inane thing I've seen in racing watching people run "new" tires during non-critical sessions just to wear them down until they're fast. I'll not race on RA1s next year. There are way too many other things to do with life than be pissed off at your tires all weekend. (Granted I only have 8 race days on them, and I'm pretty sure I got a "tsunami" set going by the build date and that they corded after one day, but that didn't get me off on the right foot with Toyo.)

I can't imagine NASA's contract letting them have an "open tire" SM class, so I'll still hope that we'll get a molded Toyo. Otherwise it's trips to Europe, Brazil and a metric crapload of rockclimbing for me, and I'll still save money over racing. That's what we as a community have to realize. This is a very expensive sport and if you take the fun out of it for people, they will go do something else. If we as the customers just stand by, do nothing, and "take" it, then the nonsense continues. Vote with your dollars and write them letting them know why you've chosen to do other things. If enough people do that, then things will change. Of course if not everyone feels the same as you, you're screwed.

[john mueller]

I am not sure what NASA or John have Brewing

http://youtu.be/tonXBiPY93s