70 replies to this topic

[Rob Burgoon]

-Not! Just bone up and buy Toyos too.

Whinge whinge whinge...

Toyos usually cost less per hour on track, and used wheels can be had for $50 each. That's what... cheaper and then a $200 one time investment? When the average SM racer spends what... more than $1000 per race weekend counting everything?

If you run 5 nasa weekends, that's $40 more per weekend that first year to pay off the wheels.

Starting from a blank slate, I would pick a single car and kick all the other cars out. Whatever has the most donors that are viable.

Chumpcar and Lemons are kind of a false economy. You'd have better luck in the long run just building a real enduro car. Pretty much the same cost and a lot less effort. If I went back into crap-can racing, I would shamelessly cheat like crazy for reliability, not performance.

[DES4]

One of the earlier posts pretty much nails my take on the concern over running under two sets of tire rules; if you're running SM with both NASA and the SCCA, you're entering several events a year; tire costs aren't the biggest expense you're facing. You'll be using up and replacing tires whether they're Toyos or Hoosiers...

The two most common reasons I hear from the people I talk to about why they leave, or cut-back participating in, SM are; 1. It cost too much to be competitive, and 2. There is too much contact.

The expense to run up front isn't what keeps a newb like myself from considering whether my car goes into another class or not, it's the contact more than anything else. Most contact I see is unnecessary, and really not a by-product of good, close racing. I'll say that from the sidelines, NASA seems to do a much better job of policing contact than the SCCA, and from the time I've spent working tech w/ the SCCA and talking to folks there, it seems as if everyone just expects that from the SM crowd. Some racers, evidently, have an unlimited sheetmetal budget, I do not. A couple of good friends have switched to FP (in part for this reason) and recommend that I too, make that move... although I expect my '93 will remain a SM.

For a guy like myself, it's not really the cost of tires, nor what one would need to spend to run up front; it's more the expense of needless bodywork, money that can be used elsewhere.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Kyle, these Webb places are SO much cleaner than the X gas station current liquor stoor/Greasy Spoon in Lexington at IIRC the corner of hwy 42 & Main street. Hey, it was more darn fun being there early in the mornig when the locals were doing their jawing over coffee. Hope you fellas took AC to a place like the local Greasy Spoon for breakfast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ryUZJNe7mQ

Is that all you think about Food and Mac Davis? almost forgot you we know you think abotu the 1.6 alot

[DrDomm]

If the idea is to make a "faster" SM, why not take the restrictor off the '99's, add a tweak or two, and let them race with the SM5's?

If you wanna go even faster, I think STL and STU offer that. Let's not add more classes, though.

Contact? I find the starts of these races to be the first problem. Any series that has 30-40 similar cars racing has this problem, though. I'm not sure what the answer is.

[Steve D]

Toyos usually cost less per hour on track, and used wheels can be had for $50 each. That's what... cheaper and then a $200 one time investment? When the average SM racer spends what... more than $1000 per race weekend counting everything?

If you run 5 nasa weekends, that's $40 more per weekend that first year to pay off the wheels.

I wish it were that simple. I've driven both brands in the last year and they drive quite differently. Aside from not wanting to start over each weekend trying to get the feel of the "other" tire on the ragged edge, re-learning braking and corner entry, etc., I would hazard a guess that anyone who aspires to the top half of the grid would want to change their alignment/setup to suit the tires (for tire wear as much as handling benefit).

For that reason, cross-over is a biatch. As SM director in the SE, I wish it weren't.

[Alex Bolanos]

I thought this would be an issue for me earlier this year as well but as turns out it hasn't. I've run all of the 2012 NASA FL events (that don't conflict with SCCA Nationals) on one set of Toyos...

John, more classes is not the answer... If you run PT(Anything) in your Miatas you'll be racing against yourself in NASA FL.

[Rob Burgoon]

I wish it were that simple. I've driven both brands in the last year and they drive quite differently. Aside from not wanting to start over each weekend trying to get the feel of the "other" tire on the ragged edge, re-learning braking and corner entry, etc., I would hazard a guess that anyone who aspires to the top half of the grid would want to change their alignment/setup to suit the tires (for tire wear as much as handling benefit).

For that reason, cross-over is a biatch. As SM director in the SE, I wish it weren't.

Boohoo racing is hard work?

[Alex Bolanos]

I would hazard a guess that anyone who aspires to the top half of the grid would want to change their alignment/setup to suit the tires (for tire wear as much as handling benefit).

No offense, but if you're changing alignment and corner balance to run Toyos at regional NASA weekends you're wasting time that would be better utilized staring at a laptop screen. None of us SCCA national guys that cross over down here have ever adjusted the cars and we're competitive.

[Steve D]

Boohoo racing is hard work?

You can't possibly be as big a douche in person as you are online.

[Steve D]

No offense, but if you're changing alignment and corner balance to run Toyos at regional NASA weekends you're wasting time that would be better utilized staring at a laptop screen. None of us SCCA national guys that cross over down here have ever adjusted the cars and we're competitive.

No offense taken, Alex. I appreciate your perspective. I think the perception of the difference and/or hassle factor between Toyos/Hoosiers may be worse than the reality. My only point was that the perception is what might inhibit crossover.

I'm glad as hale you Florida folks have crossed over. Not just for the health of NASA down there but for the pages and pages of entertainment on this site.

[Rob Burgoon]

You can't possibly be as big a douche in person as you are online.

I have 0 sympathy for someone complaining about not being able to adapt to a different tire and an optimal setup being slightly different. What do you do when the grip changes with track temp? Do you trailer at the first hint of rain? Dig your big boy pants out and stop griping about a non-issue.

[Andrew Charbonneau]

I have 0 sympathy for someone complaining about not being able to adapt to a different tire and an optimal setup being slightly different. What do you do when the grip changes with track temp? Do you trailer at the first hint of rain? Dig your big boy pants out and stop griping about a non-issue.

OOOOOH MY GOD YOU ARE ARE TARD put down your club rob and go green save yourself after watching your vidio you might want to change your tire deal

[Andrew Charbonneau]

No offense, but if you're changing alignment and corner balance to run Toyos at regional NASA weekends you're wasting time that would be better utilized staring at a laptop screen. None of us SCCA national guys that cross over down here have ever adjusted the cars and we're competitive.

sorry alex this one is for the fact that we dont care about tires in se we want to race. I wish I was closer to babboon and i would beat him on steel rims.

[Andrew Charbonneau]

No offense taken, Alex. I appreciate your perspective. I think the perception of the difference and/or hassle factor between Toyos/Hoosiers may be worse than the reality. My only point was that the perception is what might inhibit crossover.

I'm glad as hale you Florida folks have crossed over. Not just for the health of NASA down there but for the pages and pages of entertainment on this site.

steve its not a crossover its another tire deal mo money QUSTION why does nasa use scca rules but different tire .


MONEY

[Andrew Charbonneau]

ROB LOOKING FOR TIRE MONEY

[Andrew Charbonneau]

[Ron Alan]

I have 0 sympathy for someone complaining about not being able to adapt to a different tire and an optimal setup being slightly different. What do you do when the grip changes with track temp? Do you trailer at the first hint of rain? Dig your big boy pants out and stop griping about a non-issue.

Had you not thrown the first post in and left out the last 2 sentences of this post...you might have a point. But your uncontrollable need to be a wise-ass or smart-ass makes you look like a dumb-ass.

Need I remind you of all the complaining you've done on this forum? 3 day SCCA events? on track contact and/or racing incidents? We have spoken in person and I found you to be a reasonable young guy...even after you threw a few darts my way I still gave you the benefit of the doubt and didn't respond back. It's very easy to get your point across without digs or insults unless of course it's a close buddy them all's fair...and most of us recognize this between friends.

Do you really want to be THAT guy? When your not on some "mightier than thou" trip you have well thought out points and info. Your call...

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Had you not thrown the first post in and left out the last 2 sentences of this post...you might have a point. But your uncontrollable need to be a wise-ass or smart-ass makes you look like a dumb-ass.

Need I remind you of all the complaining you've done on this forum? 3 day SCCA events? on track contact and/or racing incidents? We have spoken in person and I found you to be a reasonable young guy...even after you threw a few darts my way I still gave you the benefit of the doubt and didn't respond back. It's very easy to get your point across without digs or insults unless of course it's a close buddy them all's fair...and most of us recognize this between friends.

Do you really want to be THAT guy? When your not on some "mightier than thou" trip you have well thought out points and info. Your call...

Well sade English teacher!!!

[Caveman-kwebb99]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh4fUJ4Nn6k
ROB LOOKING FOR TIRE MONEY

Please dont feed the aminals!

[Ron Alan]

Well sade English teacher!!!

Sade? Isn't that a singer from the 90's...maybe 80's

Kyle...please change your avatar! Just saying what others are thinking and for sure would never post an avatar like some of your previous!

GOOD LORD...maybe I should look before I post...that was creepy!