127 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

Tom,
That is basically what the ARRC will and should turn into now that it is open to any and all.

Blake

Get the top ten in each to commit, maybe we can get Butch to offer a reduced entry fee to the top ten in either..

That would be awesome, but I would bet SCCA would sweep the podium ( yes we are claiming Alex,Andrew and Blake)

[Glenn]

Get the top ten in each to commit, maybe we can get Butch to offer a reduced entry fee to the top ten in either..

That would be awesome, but I would bet SCCA would sweep the podium ( yes we are claiming Alex,Andrew and Blake)

That sounds like a double dog dare to me.......LOL But a GREAT Idea, just exclude Fowler/Any OPM car so he doesnt win his "sweep"

[Alex Bolanos]

Get the top ten in each to commit, maybe we can get Butch to offer a reduced entry fee to the top ten in either..

That would be awesome, but I would bet SCCA would sweep the podium ( yes we are claiming Alex,Andrew and Blake)

I'm sure General Brown would have something to say about that...

[Jim Drago]

I'm sure General Brown would have something to say about that...

We definitely claim him as well

[wheel]

Making the Runoffs more inclusive was not done to make money. It was done to allow more racers to experience the event. The Runoffs will move after 2013. Discussions are on-going about where it will go and how long it will stay at the next track. There are all sorts of options on the table, including more frequent venue changes. Everyone has an opinion about whether making the Runoffs easier to qualify for reduces entrants at National races. There are lots of ways to look at the numbers. Some argue that more late entrants may be the result of racers saying, "If I get one more finish, I can go to the Runoffs. I think I'll do another race."
Interesting thread.
wheel

[Bench Racer]

Jim Wheeler, several years ago when the topic of Runoffs venue was thrown about someone from the SCCA posted the demographics map of SCCA members. Most likely it was posted on the production car site. If you have axcess to the current demographics map could you post it.

I know change is constant but the current demographics may have some value to folks on this site.

Thanks

[wheel]

Dave,
I don't have that information, but I will see what is available, and post it, since you asked so nicely.
wheel

[screaming monkey]

I started attending the Runoffs as a crew person in 2003. When I found out the race was coming to my back yard, I stopped dreaming about it and got myself in a position to buy a car and compete myself. I'm not going this year because I'm broke as and in dire need of track time. I'm going to do everything in my power to be there next year. Poop on the White House lawn, punch a baby, fart in church, whatever it takes. The experience of being there is one of the things that drive you to want to win there. As a club racer in the SCCA, it should always be an aspiration for a National driver. Every racer at any level wants to be better than they are and if you've never been able to compete there, just doing that is an accomplishment. Racing with the best makes you better if you pay attention. It's too bad the west coast drivers aren't willing or able to go at least once to such a great track, regardless of hp or talent or whatever. We traveled to Mid O several times to run mid pack and came home with great stories and the desire to go back and do better. We hated Topeka but in hindsight, we still tell the stories. I may never have the full package to win at RA, but it doesn't suppress my desire to try. The race needs the best to compete AND guys like me somewhere in the field.The money is another animal but if you have the means, don't miss it because there are more reasons to go other than winning . Frank- If you go, I sell maps of where the bathrooms are for $100 (hint: they are also the place to get that special grease). Did I motivate anyone to sign up, or was that a huge waste of time?

[Tom Sager]

While I would love to attend the runoffs, the track really makes the decision for me. I really like to run Road America, however I do not have the horsepower to be compeititve there (an added dose of talent would help as well). The track demands that the car have max horsepower to be competitive, I dropped a new pro motor in the car, went through some serious dyno tuning, and still don't have the power needed to run at the very front. However, other tracks would allow me the possibility of being competitive in my current trim, passing higher hp cars would be very difficult, but not impossible, and there would be the possibility of holding that pass as well, at RA that won't happen.

Chris, from what I've seen, you've got enough power to be competitive at RA. Talent-wise you've stacked up quite well looking at results from places like Mid-Ohio and Gingerman. Give yourself and your car a little credit.

[Jim Boemler]

When I found out the race was coming to my back yard, I stopped dreaming about it and got myself in a position to buy a car and compete myself. ... It's too bad the west coast drivers aren't willing or able to go at least once to such a great track, regardless of hp or talent or whatever.

So here's the question: Would you be willing or able to come out to Laguna, or another major west coast track?

[Ron Alan]

So here's the question: Would you be willing or able to come out to Laguna, or another major west coast track?

Leave it to another West Coast guy to dare raise this question Who wouldn't want to come to California? Laguna Seca...5 miles from beautiful Monterey Bay, 8 miles from Pebble Beach(blow another $1k on a couple rounds of golf), 10 miles from Carmel By the Sea dining with Clint?
Or Sonoma...your already in the middle of Napa wine country, 30 miles from San Francisco or most any coastal town to the west...and the odds of rain are super slim to none!

Though Thunderhill is a great track, owned by SCCA, and by far the safest track(at least for hitting something hard)...not sure if it would draw any long tows like the other 2 tracks. Love Laguna but you are punished for little mistakes or others little mistakes if you get in the gravel. Sonoma has a lot of hard things to hit but no where you cant drive back on the track after a little off roading. I think it is the most technical track and really gives you no breaks as well as seemingly no real advantage to any one year car. And for me it's a 40 minute drive Hope to see you all next year!!

Ok back to reality...what where we talking about? Haves vs the have nots again??? Oh, participation. Von C must be on a time out.

[Jim Boemler]

The question, Ron, is whether the eastern guys really would tow across the country, as they expect us to. I don't think they've thought through the idea from the perspective of the people having to come from that distance.

[Bench Racer]

This year I’m racing less, choosing ones closer to home when I can and focusing on fun. I get to hang out more. It’s less stressful, less expensive and I have a blast. Last weekend I was mid-pack in very close races with people within tenths or thousands of my times, and I have no idea what tires they were using. It didn’t matter and I didn’t care. If we all traded tires it probably wouldn’t have changed things and if it did we’d be having just as much fun racing someone 1 or 2 spots up or down the scoreboard.

Many of your local brethren realized this years ago, including many who are regularly at the front. A number of others have left the fold because those around them forgot or ignored the lesson.

Bingo, we have another winner. Many folks quickly found out mid pack is it, where it will be & that's ok because there is fun there. BUT the $$$/time may not justify doing the Runoffs.

[screaming monkey]

It always comes back to $ but if I had the budget in place I would for sure. Always wanted to race at Laguna or Sears Point. It would have to be one of the better tracks to make the destination worth the drive, but there is no shortage of great west coast tracks. The occasional crazy road trip is one of the draws to racing for me. Sooner than later before you guys falls into the ocean.

[Danny Steyn]

Great topic and interesting viewpoints

• Love the idea of competing with the best - that's my reason for attending the Runoffs
• Do not like the time commitment - Doesn't matter if you are an employee or self employed, a week is a week and time is valuable to us all, and IMO that is too long for an event
• Personally not a great fan of Road America as IMO power is too large of a component in the equation
• Would like to see it move around more - sure there are reasons why it stays in one place for several years, but I think that encourages the same drivers to come back and the same drivers to stay away. I think moving it around will see a more diverse array of drivers attending
• Dont mind where it is - will travel to CA when it goes there. There will always be a driver with local knowledge, one day you will get lucky and it will be at your home track
• Not a fan of Laguna Seca - lovely track but sand-traps stop the cars dead, just off the racing line in the hazard zone and the last time I was there there were way too many yellows and FCY's
• To be fair to E and W coast drivers it should be in some rotation.

Will add more as this progresses

[Jim Drago]

I don't think the east coast guys would go every year if on the west Coast, but I would guarantee that most of us would go at least once. I know I would. Brian Ghindelli came last year from the west coast. In some respects, i think it would be easier for us to go west as we could split expenses.

I agree, it is imperative that the event move around. The event needs to stay fresh to keep people coming back and encouraging new people to participate.

Jim

[granracing]

....a real marquee track that no one has the home court or testing advantage.

For the guys (teams) who are truly talented and should be at the front of the pack, there should really be no home court advantage. There are two test days. And plenty of video to study before. Just my opinion of course.

Four national events are required to become eligible. In the N.E., that means a requirement to race at NHMS or Pocono rovals unless one is willing to travel much further. I personally hate those tracks so it would add another barrier to attending the Runoffs for me. I have spoken with other who have this feeling as well. Then as someone else mentioned, maybe the person can’t make the races because life / work gets in the way.

If people feel there should be a qualification process, why not include some type of consideration for regional races? If you want the “better drivers”, maybe require that the driver finish in the top 1/3^rd?

I recognize that one purpose of the Runoffs is to recognize a national champion for the attending classes, and attempt to bring the best teams to the event. I also believe there are additional purposes behind the event from a Club’s perspective, such as serving as a marketing tool.

[wheel]

How about two years at Indy, two years at Austin, two years at Miller, two years at Infineon, two years at Road Atlanta, two years at MidO? All Runoffs being one practice, two qualifying races - done over three days? Who would go?

One thing about the Runoffs is that you can pretty well guarantee that you will be racing against the best of the best. There might also be a whole lot of racers who aren't the best, but enjoy the experience of the event. That is why I have been going for something like 14 years.

To Dave's question about demographics of SCCA. Approximate membership by Division: CN 3,500 - GL, 5,000 - MW, 3,000 - NE, 10,000 - NP, 5,200 - RM, 1,800 - SE, 8,200 - SP, 3,200 - SW, 2,200

As of the start of the season, there were: (N is National license holders, R is regional)
CN, 391 N, 59 R -
GL, 370 N, 104 R -
MW, 196 N, 57 R -
NE, 1027 N, 611 R -
NP, 454 N, 349 R -
RM, 178 N, 38 R -
SE, 976 N, 688 R -
SP, 280 N, 96 R -
SW, 289 N, 2081 R

[Jim Drago]

How about two years at Indy, two years at Austin, two years at Miller, two years at Infineon, two years at Road Atlanta, two years at MidO? All Runoffs being one practice, two qualifying races - done over three days? Who would go?

I assume you add a championship race at the end? That is fine, but that format exists already. I think we need something similar, but still different and uniquely SCCA. I think any way you can move the event around and keep it fresh and limit the time is a major improvement. Doing so will probably double the entries. People want to race the Runoffs, but common sense gets in the way with the 10 days format we have now ( even in it's shorter version) We are shooting ourselves in the foot.

[Rob Burgoon]

Based on those demographics, I'm surprised it's not held at VIR or MidO every year.