31 replies to this topic

[Yosh]

Supps are out.

http://www.flr-scca....e2012_Supps.pdf

RACE GROUPS
Group 1; SM, SSM, SM2, ITB, ITC, SSB, SSC, STL
Group 2: FA, FB, FC, FE, CSR, DSR, S-2000, VS2, FM, FS, F1000,CFC
Group 3: EP, FP, HP, GTL, Legends, SRF, STL, SPU
Group 4: Historic Series HRG1, HRG2, HRG3, HRG4, HRG5
Group 5: ITR, ITS, ITA, IT-7, STU, T3
Group 6: GT1, GT2, GT3, AS, ITE, T1, T2, ST, STO, SPO
Group 7: FF, CF, NCF, FV, F500, FFirst

The STL in Group 1 is apparently a mistake. STL is in group 3 with SRF.

Why do regions do this stuf?. In years past, they separate SM from SM2/SSM. Maybe mix in some of the IT cars.

Last year, SM had 42 cars, SM2/SSM had 20 (out of 37 total, mixed with ITB,ITC,SSC), and ITA had 21 (19 of them Miatas) out of 40 total, mixed with ITR,ITS,STU)

I guess they don't need the car counts? Lots of people share cars or double dip. I keep hearing how expensive the Glen is to rent, but this schedule isn't conducive to large fields (SM | SSM+SM2 | ITA Miatas were 81 separate entries out of 276 at last year's Fun One). Race chair writes that double dippers could just go with STL or ITA, but it seems like you either chance a potentially illegal car in ITA or end up pissing off a bunch of SRFs.

[Mike L]

If the choice is ITA, don't forget to add 110lbs if your car is in SM trim and 60lbs if it's in SSM trim. And here I thought I was getting running a SSM car in SM...

[Yosh]

Jason and I share a car so it used to be that I ran a SSM car in SM and he ran a heavy SSM car in SSM.

It has been really great the last year being able to run SM and SM2 separately. No monkeying around with the airbox and the weights are the same!

I can appreciate that they are trying to get rid of a entire run group but I think they will have entry drops if they keep the schedule the way it is now. For reference:

Last year @ Fun One:
ITR/ITS/STU = 44
SM = 41
SM2/SSM/ITB = 37
SRF/FP/HP/FTL = 36
GT1/SPO/ITE = 32
FV = 31
DSR/FC/FM = 30
HRG = 26

July Sprints this year:
ProIT = 48
SM/HP/FP = 44
ITR/ITS/ITA/STL = 44
SM2/SSM/ITB = 42
FV = 27
HRG = 18
SRF = 17 (and they still managed to wipe out half the field)
GT1/SPO/AS = 11

Double dippers are one thing but shared cars are a full 2nd entry for the region.

Can we run the 1.6 in STU? Might be even able to run HRG!

[Terry Hanushek]

Yosh

It appears that the STL duplication has been corrected - STL is Group 3 with Prod, SRF and Legends.

I was going to suggest that you contact race officials to suggest a change but was surprised to see only seven group (six SCCA and HRG) for their traditional 300-350 car entry. Wow! With a perfect distribution, that is about 50 cars per group. Busy, busy, busy.

Terry

[ner88]

AND, you wonder why there are so many crashes.......
I love the track but hate everything else.........

[Yosh]

Been doing some digging and @ the Fun One last year, there were:

10 shared SM/SM2/SSM/ITA entries (5 cars)
and
15 SM/SM2/SSM/ITA double dippers (30 entries, though the 2nd one is at a discount).

was surprised to see only seven group (six SCCA and HRG) for their traditional 300-350 car entry. Wow! With a perfect distribution, that is about 50 cars per group. Busy, busy, busy.

Terry

Hi Terry,
Yeah, I appreciate the idea of more track time by cutting down groups. I also appreciate that you can only combine certain types of cars together in the same group. Personally, I think putting more miatas mixed with SRFs is a bad idea. The where the they are fast vs. where we are slow and viceversa seems to be even more pronounced at a place like the Glen.

I guess STU will be the preferred 2nd class? Sucks for people who were going for points in both SM and SM2/SSM.

I've contacted the race chair, but have gotten a feel that it won't go anywhere:

"The problem is working with the SCCA structure related to cars in groupings Vs getting track time. I chose to try and give ALL the drivers and give ALL the drivers more track time by reducing the number of groups to 7 Vs the 8. This alowed for the 20 minute qualifying and 25 minute Races as well as the required down time between seasions. AND I this is already paying Wakins Glen overtime both days."


So who is going? Who is reconsidering?

[Mike L]

Yes, bummer, I've also contacted the chair and got the same response.

Looking at last year's numbers and this year's fees maybe they lose around $3500, and then they might come out ahead if they potentially save on the WGI overtime costs? they probably don't need the money given the high car counts and how little they charge for a second entry.

Personally i'm reconsidering now if only one of us (my co-driver and i) can race in G1 (either in SM or SSM). Running in STU in an SSM trim car.....well that seems like just tooling around the track a la HPDE...been there done that...

[ner88]

Not to mention all the ITR and ITS cars that could double up in STU.
Or racing SSM or SM2 with ITB guys!
I guess this is what happens when non racers put run groups together!

[svvs]

I hate to say it, but I'm almost glad I have to miss this event.

Double dipping really helps make a race weekend worth it for me. I'm spending a tank of fuel each way towing (2500 suburban with enclosed trailer), spending the hotel money no matter what, and food away from home no matter what. i'm also missing time at work.

Doubling my track time for a relatively small incremental entry fee increase helps amortize those fixed costs, and also adds to the fun factor/keeps me busy/gets me more experience/knowledge. I guess I've gotten spoiled over the years with the ability to do that.

If I wasn't double dipping with "meaningful" competition (this includes running a SSM car in SM...did that for two years), I probably wouldn't enter the race at all.

My $.02. I'm not usually so negative, but for some reason on this one I am.

-Vick

[DrDomm]

This was going to be a definite race for me, but there are 2 things I look for when Regional Supps come out.

Number 1...what race group is SM? I hate getting up super early to tow 90 minutes. I don't believe in sleeping in a hotel when I live so close.
Number 2...are SM and SM2 different run groups. If I come up, I want to have the option to run both groups or at least pick the later one.

So, now I'm looking for alternate races. Isn't Lime Rock the following weekend?

Like it or not, Regions need to cater to SM's at regional races. We are a significant amount of entries. I don't know what HRG really is, but I guess they're are a bunch of them. I don't really understand the SP category either. Legends?

Sorry to be such a Miata elitist.

[Justin Baltrucki]

I hate to say it, but I'm almost glad I have to miss this event.

Double dipping really helps make a race weekend worth it for me. I'm spending a tank of fuel each way towing (2500 suburban with enclosed trailer), spending the hotel money no matter what, and food away from home no matter what. i'm also missing time at work.

Doubling my track time for a relatively small incremental entry fee increase helps amortize those fixed costs, and also adds to the fun factor/keeps me busy/gets me more experience/knowledge. I guess I've gotten spoiled over the years with the ability to do that.

If I wasn't double dipping with "meaningful" competition (this includes running a SSM car in SM...did that for two years), I probably wouldn't enter the race at all.

My $.02. I'm not usually so negative, but for some reason on this one I am.

-Vick

I agree with you on this vick, the cost of towing, 2 days travel time, hotel, time off work, its just not worth it for 40 minutes of track time from a single entry. Have to enter two classes to make it worth the effort. Looking forward to the last chance enduro in OCT at the glen, but skipping the fun one this year.

[DrDomm]

I agree with you on this vick, the cost of towing, 2 days travel time, hotel, time off work, its just not worth it for 40 minutes of track time from a single entry. Have to enter two classes to make it worth the effort. Looking forward to the last chance enduro in OCT at the glen, but skipping the fun one this year.

Just to be fair, it's 90 minutes of track time. Twenty minute qualifying and 25 minute race on both days.

[Cheryl Zebrowski]

AND, you wonder why there are so many crashes.......
I love the track but hate everything else.........

Ouch. That hurts.

[Cheryl Zebrowski]

Not to mention all the ITR and ITS cars that could double up in STU.
Or racing SSM or SM2 with ITB guys!
I guess this is what happens when non racers put run groups together!

Jerry,
I take exception to this. I am a non-racer and put race groups together quite well; if I need assistance, I ask. In the Glen Region, we do our best to accomodate, knowing that we can't make everyone happy all the time.
FWIW, one of the FLR co-race chairs is Chris DeMinco, long time driver.

[Yosh]

I don't think that being a racer or not makes a whit of difference in this case.
I understand what the race officials are trying to do; I just think that there is a high probability of losing a bunch of entries. Not to mention that running miatas and SRFs together tends to not work out well.

Over on improved touring, this was posted, which clarifies some the region's thinking:

Against my better judgement I will respond to the race groupings because I had a hand in setting them.

The groups are set up so that Miatas can run Gp1 and then double dip in Gp3 (STL) and triple dip in Gp 5 (ITA, ITS, maybe STU)

IT cars can run Gp 1 (ITB, ITC) or Gp 5 (ITR, ITS, ITA) and then double dip in GP3 (STL).

This might not be a conventional grouping that you are used to. However, we put a lot of thought into double and triple dipping. Let's try this and see how it works.

For any and all dippers, make sure you go to impound when necessary. We will turn you around ASAP so that you can get to your next group. Just let me know!

Thanks and please reconsider attending our event.
__________________
Bruce Perry
90 ITA Miata Yellow/Orange
FLR Tech Chief

[Jonathan Goring]

This is my first SCCA race so this could be a silly question, but is there a detailed event schedule out yet? One that shows the times that all the groups are out?

Thanks

[svvs]

This is my first SCCA race so this could be a silly question, but is there a detailed event schedule out yet? One that shows the times that all the groups are out?

Thanks

Jonathan:

You'll have a great time at this race!

That being said, it's not like a "pro" weekend with time specific schedules. There are groups that run in sequential order, starting at a specific time. The length of the race/qual session should be specified in the supps. There is also a one hour break for lunch, usually as close to noon as possible.

Your best bet is to figure out which group is on track before you, and keep your eyes peeled for that type of car on track. There are also announcements and calls to grid over the loud speakers, but depending on where you are paddocked you may not hear them.

Also helps to buddy up with another guy in the same group, this way you have someone to talk to about when to go to grid.

Have fun!

[edzeb]

Jonathan,

Feel free to stop in and ask any and all questions. I am in garage 2A next to Tech.

Ed Zebrowski
#72

[Cheryl Zebrowski]

Jonathan,

Feel free to stop in and ask any and all questions. I am in garage 2A next to Tech.

Ed Zebrowski
#72

Look out, Jonathan. I did that, and ended up marrying him.

Seriously, if you need anything, feel free to e-mail me ahead of time: cheryldvm@aol.com
We can recommend places to stay, eat, etc.

In the Spirit of the Sport,
Cheryl Zebrowski
Glen Region CRB Chair

[edzeb]

Who's planning on going?