141 replies to this topic

[Jamz14]

For all intensive purposes, if you can't tech it, it's legal by default.

A better definition would be if it isn't teched in the shed it is legal. Any car that clears tech is legal.

[Bench Racer]

Any car that clears tech is legal.

I'm not looking for any $hit, BUT, do you really believe that ^ ?

Talk about living through rose colored sun glasses.

[Jamz14]

Yes I do believe that and it would be impossible for anyone to dispute it. Unless you are willing to put forth evidence that scrutineers purposely allowed cars to come through tech that they knew were illegal. This isn't rose colored glasses. This is a fact. Show me a result of a car clearing tech, results posted, and then after the fact the car was deemed illegal and position was altered based on post tech tech. Results are final after tech at least from an equipment standpoint unless someone is willing to put up the cash for a full inspection. And I would believe that an equipment protest would have to happen prior to the car being cleared from impound. Otherwise all kinds of mod eliminations could happen in between impound and someone demanding an inspection.

I have learned that any conversation of people cheating is a jerk off and doesn't have any relevance on racing or results unless you are willing to put up money. So maybe I am playing loose with the word legal, but the end result is the same........... therefore legal enough.

[Jamz14]

Tech doesn't issue , "might be legal" statements on cars.

[Bench Racer]

So maybe I am playing loose with the word legal,

Nuff said ^.

[Jamz14]

Cherry picking one statement out of context doesn't make your case. Legal enough still stands. Legal enough for results to be official is the point of that half quoted statement. Legal enough is all I care about. Racers taught me that. I used to be more concerned with the "spirit" of rules. Now, less ethereal things preoccupy me. Things like how can I get the most rolling resistance out of the car. That is real. Anything else is the rose colored world you referred to.

[Jim Drago]

When a car clears tech, it is deemed compliant, not legal A compliant car could have numerous illegal parts on it that were not inspected. We can't expect volunteer tech staff to do NASCAR style tear downs weekly.

[wheel]

It's really all about whether you want to win a P.O.S trophy by running an illegal car or by winning a wonderful trophy by better prep and superior driving. That question will only be answered when you meet your maker.

wheel

[Jamz14]

Jim, that is splitting hairs. Compliance means legal. Compliance with what? Compliance with rules!!!! Which means legal. Yeah it could have numerous parts that are not legal, but that would just be speculation. Cars are legal until proven otherwise.

So I change my verbiage to suit your use of words. If it isn't teched in the shed,the car is compliant. Any car that clears tech is compliant with the rules.

Tech my car all day long, you won't find a single piece on the car that is a cheat. You may find things that are non compliant, but not cheats. For example, I think my alternator cap came off last race, non compliant, but not a cheat.

Keep in mind, I am only stating the view point of the scrutineers. You can disagree with them all you want, but at the end of the day, the results are the same. If the car cleared tech, results stand, period. Complaint enough.

[Jim Drago]

Jamz
You are correct in your interpretation. Most I have met want to win within the rules, not outside of them.There are some that don't care, I have met them as well. When all is said and done, you have to look at yourself in the mirror. If your not proud of your accomplishments, what have you accomplished?

[Jamz14]

Jim,

Could not agree more.

I am very proud of our accomplishments this season.

Yeah, I can look at myself in the mirror without issue using the springs mentioned in this thread. Just as easily as guys looking in the mirror that spend 150k a season campaigning a SM against small teams. Fresh tires every race, endless dyno hours, multiple engines, trannies and diffs all blueprinted (meaning parts selected for tolerance), closed haulers with room for spares, whole other cars available for that matter, ETC ETC

All fair too and I have no complaint with it and I will do the same whenever possible. But lets be real,not a level playing field. Even opportunity to be level, but not level. If I get a season out of the tranny using the aftermarket springs, and the hypothetical guy with many resources gets 4 weekends using the "speced" spring, I'm good with that. As matter of fact, I'd call it a step closer to mythical parity as I am working to keep my one engine going instead of rebuilding my tranny for the nth time,or , having to pay someone to rebuild my tranny for the nth time. .

On the other hand, what other class is there where a guy with a modest budget can come out and play with the Big Dogs and be competitive? SM is about as close to parity as you can get and I am sure glad we chose SM as the route for us ( except of course that an enlargement to the 97 r plate is absolutely needed to bring it even close to all you 99's ........... i'm joking! ) .

I know nobody official can say it,.......... use the springs and look in the mirror without regret. If you beat us with them, you beat us fair and square and the beer is on you!

[LarryKing]

This is all Saul's fault.

P.S., how does Jimmy Johnson look at himself in a mirror?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

thats why Jimmy Johnson has a perpetual 5 oclock shadow LOL! With all Jimmy's rebuilding his transmissions over night when the crew isnt looking over his shoulders so that he can get the performace advantage of those springs, he doesnt have time to use his razor in the morning.

Jamz, you are in the wrong business, you should be writing for the Wall street journal! Or maybe a Novel...

[Jamz14]

Jimmie looks at himself in the mirror with a huge smile on his face knowing he needs a pit crew just to rake up all the cash he makes!

Working on the novel Kyle, but you would hate it. Political nonsense and evil thoughts on social engineering.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Jimmie looks at himself in the mirror with a huge smile on his face knowing he needs a pit crew just to rake up all the cash he makes!

Working on the novel Kyle, but you would hate it. Political nonsense and evil thoughts on social engineering.

I am sure I would hate it, but its ok 47% would like it sounds liek a large audeince... lolololololo

[Mike Collins]

I have said this dozens of times... No rule in the book that says Saul is not allowed to be smarter than you.... I have taken transmissions apart in the tech shed. three times in my career. Saul's spring would pass every time.

[steve]

No rule in the book that says Saul is not allowed to be smarter than you....

I thought the rule was that if the GCR didn't say it was ok (for him to be smarter), then it isn't?

[SaulSpeedwell]

Yeah after taking a look, NASA does not have the nuts and bolts rule. I better check my radiator hose clamps.

I've had transmissions rebuilt every time due to shifts that "crunch" in 3rd or 4th gear. I suspect the same for other people. You think a better spring might double the life between rebuilds assuming we're using good oil, changing it and not driving in an abusive to the transmission way? Very subjective I know but this is a good rule change if it means longer life between rebuilds.

Yes, I think so (that the spring will at least double life for many/most) and here's why: 99% of the boxes I have rebuilt have cracked the synchros well before the synchros were "worn out". In 99% of those boxes with cracked synchros, each cracked synchro was accompanied by a broken spring.

Wheeler and I appear to agree that the broken spring CAUSES the broken synchro, not the other way around.

At $1000 to $1300 for refurb'd and new boxes, I decided even if it cost $15-20 per spring to have someone tool it up here in the U.S., it would still be a good value overall. Missed shifts lose races, stuck trannies cause DNFs, and replacing trannies at the track is no fun.

Another tip: The more positive shifter locating in the '99+ box makes them less tolerant of abuse. If you are easy on trannies and rarely miss shifts, the 99+ box is great. if you are a little hamfisted and tend to get short tranny life, you will be better off with a 90-97 box because the shifter "gives" more when you miss a shift.

P.S. I think most people are changing fluids WAY too often. I ended up running 2 weekends on engine oil (oil analysis said I could go longer), and a full season on trans and non-1.6 diffs. 1.6 diffs cook oil, I think changing frequently is justified there.

I haven't read most of the stuff here - but I will get around to it on a cold weekend in the future.

[TEAM MEDICARE]

I have said this dozens of times... No rule in the book that says Saul is not allowed to be smarter than you.... I have taken transmissions apart in the tech shed. three times in my career. Saul's spring would pass every time.

Now that you know it's possibly in violation will you be looking closer?

[Adax]

Saul,

Help me understand why the spring "tab" would break in the first place. It keep the spring from rotating inside the hub, but there is no significant rotational force on the spring other than inertia. The keys force the tab in and out of the locating hole when the clutch sleeve is moved during shifts, but they don't rotate the spring. Could the problem be the tab binding in the locating hole?

The keys as well keep the spring inside the hub by design, but without the tab and 6.9K RPM I could imagine how it could be spun out.

AC