78 replies to this topic

[Bench Racer]

Tracy, see post #3.

[Rob Burgoon]

Dude, I'm not being "prickish one bit. I was stating a fact as I read your post above.

 

 

Suspension bushings and sway bar spacers are two unrelated things.  I don't need to make up my mind between them.  Read it again if you still don't get it.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

I drive a 99, so I don't know the answer to your question... but you are certainly not going to get anyone to help you with that crappy attitude.

[Rob Burgoon]

I drive a 99, so I don't know the answer to your question... but you are certainly not going to get anyone to help you with that crappy attitude.

 

Just reflecting the attitude I'm getting.

 

Thanks to Kyle Freiheit for pointing me towards the solution to my question.  And thanks to those who genuinely tried to help.  For all those that knew the answer and chose to post BS instead, find a better way to spend your time.

[JRHille]

"What would the rear sway bar have to be set to to make the car handle the same as it did with the front sway changed from soft to stiff?"

Maybe? Trying to understand too...

[Keith Novak]

Rob:  Looking at it as an unbiased observer I think a lot of people were genuinely trying to help and were giving you really good information had you chosen to listen ot it.

[Rob Burgoon]

Rob:  Looking at it as an unbiased observer I think a lot of people were genuinely trying to help and were giving you really good information had you chosen to listen ot it.

 

 

Eat well and exercise if you want to lose weight.  There, I just gave you really good information.  Is it information you wanted?  Needed?  Asked for?

[Todd Green]

Rob you do seem unusually testy in this thread.  Anyway, here is an equation for calculating sway bars:

 

https://www.paragon-...sults.asp?ID=37

 

They are dominated by their diameter as you can see. In any case  plug in the dimensions of our bars and see the relative change in rate per bar as you change the length of the arms

[Rob Burgoon]

Rob you do seem unusually testy in this thread.  Anyway, here is an equation for calculating sway bars:

 

https://www.paragon-...sults.asp?ID=37

 

They are dominated by their diameter as you can see. In any case  plug in the dimensions of our bars and see the relative change in rate per bar as you change the length of the arms

 

Well, I hate having my thread jacked.  If you're not answering the question, you're probably jacking the thread.

 

Good find, I found the formula on that eng-tips site.  I used the formula, crunched some numbers and got my answer.  I was hoping someone would share and I wouldn't have to do math, but that proved to be easier.

[Keith Novak]

"What would the rear sway bar have to be set to to make the car handle the same as it did with the front sway changed from soft to stiff?"

Maybe? Trying to understand too...

It won't handle the same even if you find the same ratio of front to rear.  By changing the front from soft to siff and matching the rear, you've effectively changed the spring rates of both ends but you haven't changed the damping rate of the shocks.  The spring rate determines how much the spring is compressed at a given load.  The damping rate determines how fast the springs compress or release.  You're comparing apples to oranges in some ways. 

 

Take a car set up for wet with one or both sway bars disconnected.  The softer roll setup provides more available grip to the tires but you're not trying to flick it left to right very quickly due to the slick track surface.  It will deal better with more gradual changes in direction with that increased roll.  If the track dries up and you try to use that extra grip to flick the car from side to side, (lets say left to right) you can quickly straighten out the car but all that load on the right side will rapidly transition through the neutral middle position and quickly to the left, totally loading up the left side and unweight the right due to all the body roll.  That's where it drives like a boat and wants to wallow around and gets you into tank slappers.

[Keith Novak]

Eat well and exercise if you want to lose weight.  There, I just gave you really good information.  Is it information you wanted?  Needed?  Asked for?

Wasn't what you wanted or asked for but probably what you needed.

[Rob Burgoon]

Wasn't what you wanted or asked for but probably what you needed.

 

There was a vocal contingent that praised the 1.6 sway bar option and said the 1.8s always pushed.  This was not my experience.  As such, I don't trust sway bar recipes from anyone, so advice on "der hot setup" isn't all that helpful since my car seems to be strange.

 

Besides, what I settled on to be the best thing to try nobody here suggested.

[Kyle Freiheit]

Kyle,

 

Not sure about all of your spreadsheet values. In the lower right quadrant you list Unit Conversions and have 180 F to 82.2 C.  The hottest I ever ran was last summer at Roebling (Savannah) when it was 108 F   , which should be 42.2 C.   I am sure it doesn't get that warm in the NorthWest.   

 

This is a fun thread to read (and post) between races.   

Not mine. Here is another that is not mine. http://farnorthracin..._secrets16.html

 

Its not like there are very many options here

 

 

Kyle

[Keith Novak]

There was a vocal contingent that praised the 1.6 sway bar option and said the 1.8s always pushed.  This was not my experience.  As such, I don't trust sway bar recipes from anyone, so advice on "der hot setup" isn't all that helpful since my car seems to be strange.

 

Besides, what I settled on to be the best thing to try nobody here suggested.

I don't take anyone's advice at face value on "der hot setup" but I listen to what they have to say and try some of it to see if it's better or worse.  Sometimes I just politely listen smile and nod and pick up some real gems.

 

The only pont I hope you can take away from this is you may find far more effective ways to improve your setup than sway bar adjustments.

 

I'm fairly new to car racing and still improving with both driving and car setup.  At first I experimented a lot with sway bar settings but didn't find drastic differences.  Later I played with wedge and rake and most recently I've played more with camber and toe.  My current baseline setting iis very different than "The Setup Guide" but is a mile better than anything I've had before and literally has me giggling in the car.  My go-to setup changes don't really deal much with sway bars any more since I've found much more effective ways to dial in my suspension.  I don't know your current setup or driving style but depending on your setup, 1/16 of toe or 3/32 of rake could make a much bigger difference.  Which direction and where is my magic grease. 

[Rob Burgoon]

I don't take anyone's advice at face value on "der hot setup" but I listen to what they have to say and try some of it to see if it's better or worse.  Sometimes I just politely listen smile and nod and pick up some real gems.

 

The only pont I hope you can take away from this is you may find far more effective ways to improve your setup than sway bar adjustments.

 

I'm fairly new to car racing and still improving with both driving and car setup.  At first I experimented a lot with sway bar settings but didn't find drastic differences.  Later I played with wedge and rake and most recently I've played more with camber and toe.  My current baseline setting iis very different than "The Setup Guide" but is a mile better than anything I've had before and literally has me giggling in the car.  My go-to setup changes don't really deal much with sway bars any more since I've found much more effective ways to dial in my suspension.  I don't know your current setup or driving style but depending on your setup, 1/16 of toe or 3/32 of rake could make a much bigger difference.  Which direction and where is my magic grease. 

 

All well and good but I was forced to change swaybars.  This f*cked up my awesome setup.  I do tune with cornerweight and rake and alignment, but I feel the car needs some sway adjustment.  The rest will get monkeyed with later.

[CruzanTom]

Not mine. Here is another that is not mine. http://farnorthracin..._secrets16.html

 

Its not like there are very many options here

 

 

Kyle

 

I was just having fun on this thread in a meager effort to lessen the tension.   The temperature in your original graph was probably for water temps, not ambient temps, and it was a good spreadsheet. 

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I was just having fun on this thread in a meager effort to lessen the tension.   The temperature in your original graph was probably for water temps, not ambient temps, and it was a good spreadsheet. 

 

Tom since we have been informed that what you are doing here is trolling... DOESNT THAT MAKER YOU A TROLL?????

[Danny Steyn]

I was just having fun on this thread in a meager effort to lessen the tension.   

 

Tension???? What tension???

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Tension???? What tension???

 

 

Why its Swaybar tension Mate! 

[Danny Steyn]

Why its Swaybar tension Mate!