262 replies to this topic

[Joe (dad) Jordan]

We have run 56 races this year with 1 DNF and I guess it was our time to have a horrible one..... bad timing.  We chased a wiring harness gremlin the whole weekend We swapped everything, thanks to the Oregon boys for an alternator, a kill switch and Chris Halderman who figured out what it was......albeit after the race....  Still glad to have it figured out.  

 

Most of the bitching about the start was most likely from Joey going from 11th to 2nd at the start of Qualifying race 2.  Our car actually ran clean for almost a lap!...   Anyway I will post the start video which we shared with John Mueller  had no jump, just perfect timing a missed shift (sorry about your mirror CHAMP!) and 2 of the leaders sliding wide in turn 1.  WIll do my best to get video up tonight.

[Parity]

@ Joe (dad0

 

Just for the record , would you be willing to share what the electrical gremlin issue was? Seems like we're hearing more and more cases of this and I'm always looking to build my knowledge base.

 

Thanks

[pat slattery]

M
No WiFi at the track today so sorry for the poor grammar and spelling... Stupid smartphone keyboard.

Plans were in place to tear motors down if deemed necessary, which based on post-main dyno pulls and what we were seeing all week told me it was unnecessary. I'm not going to have someone teardown just to do it... I had a plan, reviewed it with much smarter folks than I and we followed it. I'll post more info on what we did when i have a real keyboard.

SM is such a sewing circle... SE30 has implemented a HP & TQ cap and it's perfect for that class. Hopefully this move will spare them the mess our rules rules became. Honesty, I'm going to watch how it shakes out. I think they are missing something by not mandating a dyno curve (ecu mappings). But no, I'm not instituting a cap.

I did tell everyone who al be replacing a windshield to write the BOD if they'd like to see a change there.

 

 

So John,  should competitors stop getting  blue printed pro motors,  REM treated engines and Trannys, and just get a junk yard or crate motor and cheat it up to  the acceptable HP number?

[Joe (dad) Jordan]

@Paul It was a broken frayed wire inside the throttle position sensor plug that caused it to separate under heavy cornering or high revs.  When the engine moved it would separate from the plug.  

 

The driver described it as being a fuel cut at around 6300RPM's  he said it felt like the fuel cut when you hit redline.

[Ron Alan]

As these cars get older and as many times as these harness plugs get unplugged and plugged back in...I think this is way more common than many realize. It can be were the wire attaches to the pin inside the plugs and or when the male and female plugs come together the contact of the actual pins.

 

Sorry...back to more race reports and video!!!

[john mueller]

So John,  should competitors stop getting  blue printed pro motors,  REM treated engines and Trannys, and just get a junk yard or crate motor and cheat it up to  the acceptable HP number?

 

 

Sure Pat, you do what you want and everyone else will read what I type and continue to follow the rules.

 

 

M

SM is such a sewing circle... SE30 has implemented a HP & TQ cap and it's perfect for that class. Hopefully this move will spare them the mess our rules rules became. Honesty, I'm going to watch how it shakes out. I think they are missing something by not mandating a dyno curve (ecu mappings). But no, I'm not instituting a cap.
.

[Ron Alan]

I read what you wrote John and Pats comments reflect my initial thoughts also. Yes, you say no cap, but by offering your opinion on the E30 change(good...to spare them the mess SM has become)and that you're going to see how it shakes out...gives the impression you and or NASA may be considering the same thing for SM. 

 

Not sure if that change in E30 worked out for them this year...did no one sign up for the nationals or did they preemptively cancel the class? Sorry, I know this isnt related but i was just curious why what I thought was their largest class was a no show?

[Todd Green]

Seems like people pulled out:

 

http://spece30.com/f...nals-withdrawal

[john mueller]

I read what you wrote John and Pats comments reflect my initial thoughts also. Yes, you say no cap, but by offering your opinion on the E30 change(good...to spare them the mess SM has become)and that you're going to see how it shakes out...gives the impression you and or NASA may be considering the same thing for SM. 

 

Not sure if that change in E30 worked out for them this year...did no one sign up for the nationals or did they preemptively cancel the class? Sorry, I know this isnt related but i was just curious why what I thought was their largest class was a no show?

 

Fair statement Ron...  Sorry Pat.

 

Okay, donning MY NASA HAT -  SE30's rules were changed in an attempt to stuff a few cars back in the barn who escaped over the past few seasons.   There are a handful of SE30 motors around the country that are monsters in comparison to the masses.  Information was provided suggesting that those cars were deterring folks from wanting to participate so NASA acted and it done-blow'd-up two weeks before the Championships. 

 

NASA hat off:  Poor timing perhaps but I understand why and agree with it being done.  Doesn't the problems and competitor issues sound familiar???  NASA's actions in the long run will be great for that class but how folks maneuver under the new rules will be interesting to watch -  racers are clever clever folks.

 

So, let me state very clearly - I am not considering a cap and would strongly recommend against one at this time and the near future.   But if the new NASA SE30 proves to be a successful program by increasing car counts with deeper competitive fields while helping to control escalating engine cost it might turn out to be a good thing to begin researching and discussing for SM.

 

 

BTW: the "REM'd Drive Line Parts" got out of the barn a few years ago...   Those who got the jump out of the barn know what they are doing and mostly everyone knows who they are.  Same folks who did it with motors, shocks and clutches (at least that got fixed).  Don't worry, I got the weight and plates fixed, I'll eventually fix the other sh!t too.

[pat slattery]

Sorry John, why even have a rule book if U are not going to do a invasive tech and rely on Dyno numbers.  It is your Championship race, is it not

[john mueller]

Nice.  If you weren't in my seat then you did not see all of the data I did and then you were not in all the necessary conversations either...  So because of all the non-participant BS I'm done talking to the masses about tech.  If competitors from the event want to contact me and ask questions about what and why please do, I'll answer to the best of my ability.  If any competitor wants to post what they've learned from me they may but I'm done (except to correct posted errors).

[Bench Racer]

BTW: the "REM'd Drive Line Parts" got out of the barn a few years ago...   Those who got the jump out of the barn know what they are doing and mostly everyone knows who they are.  Same folks who did it with motors, shocks and clutches (at least that got fixed).  Don't worry, I got the weight and plates fixed, I'll eventually fix the other sh!t too.

This is not aimed at John. It does not take a brain surgen for REM parts inspection. Why in both org's isn't this put back in the barn. Big race or end of year race, split the transmission and pull the pumpkin.

 

[Jamz14]

Bench,

 

I thought REM was a metal treatment. If true, after treating, how is it detectable? Does it distinctly change the surface color?

 

Thanks

[Tyler Dahl]

I know of remed parts that have been inspected and passed with no problem. You can't enforce it so why not allow it? It actually helps with wear and would result in longer part life.

[john mueller]

I'm using REM as a broad term that includes polishing and treatment, so my bad for not being more precise.  Racers are clever - these processes are not always or easily detectable.

[john mueller]

I know of remed parts that have been inspected and passed with no problem. You can't enforce it so why not allow it? It actually helps with wear and would result in longer part life.

 

Class cost escalation.  If it's in the rules as an "acceptable/approved option" it will be viewed as necessary (same issue with allowing Lexan windscreens).  It's tough!  It's the evolution of the class that I and SMAC have to deal with every damn day.  Mind you that's it's nothing new, just clever folks looking for an edge.  But it doesn't mean we should try to correct it in some way, just takes time.

 

We'll get a handle in this stuff...  I make some of my posts dramatic to get everyone's attention on something I want to see discussed.  Lots and lots of really smart folks on this board who have passion for the class.  Ideas pop and we bash the crap out of each other and our ideas, but inside all of it all may be an answer.

[Bench Racer]

Bench,

 

I thought REM was a metal treatment. If true, after treating, how is it detectable? Does it distinctly change the surface color?

 

Thanks

REM is a surface treatment.   100% of the surfaces as you'll see watching the video.

 

I know of remed parts that have been inspected and passed with no problem. You can't enforce it so why not allow it? It actually helps with wear and would result in longer part life.

 

You must have had a brain surgen checking for REM processed parts. No question on wear and part life, at what expense. Please watch this video or any other REM video. 

 

[john mueller]

Come on man, us racers are smarter than that.....    Put epoxy on the areas of the parts you don't want treated then remove epoxy.   NEXT...  KEEP THEM COMING, put your Smokey Yunick hat on!

 

[Jamz14]

REM is a surface treatment.   100% of the surfaces as you'll see watching the video.

g

Oh Pretty!! Thanks Bench.

[Charlie Hayes]

Fair statement Ron...  Sorry Pat.
 
Okay, donning MY NASA HAT -  SE30's rules were changed in an attempt to stuff a few cars back in the barn who escaped over the past few seasons.   There are a handful of SE30 motors around the country that are monsters in comparison to the masses.  Information was provided suggesting that those cars were deterring folks from wanting to participate so NASA acted and it done-blow'd-up two weeks before the Championships. 
 
NASA hat off:  Poor timing perhaps but I understand why and agree with it being done.  Doesn't the problems and competitor issues sound familiar???  NASA's actions in the long run will be great for that class but how folks maneuver under the new rules will be interesting to watch -  racers are clever clever folks.
 
So, let me state very clearly - I am not considering a cap and would strongly recommend against one at this time and the near future.   But if the new NASA SE30 proves to be a successful program by increasing car counts with deeper competitive fields while helping to control escalating engine cost it might turn out to be a good thing to begin researching and discussing for SM.
 
 
BTW: the "REM'd Drive Line Parts" got out of the barn a few years ago...   Those who got the jump out of the barn know what they are doing and mostly everyone knows who they are.  Same folks who did it with motors, shocks and clutches (at least that got fixed).  Don't worry, I got the weight and plates fixed, I'll eventually fix the other sh!t too.

I can say that I work on and with some of the best SE30 cars in the country. I will say a few will be running the runoffs next year in SM.