67 replies to this topic

[Johnny D]

I would only suggest contacting the people that ran last time and ask them why not this time.

J~

[LarryKing]

 

Does anyone on this site believe the SCCA is getting rich off the members?

 

No, I don't think the SCCA is getting rich and I think $600 entry for a club race is ridiculous. And why is a "Major" almost twice as much as a regional, at the SAME TRACK?

 

Also, why can I rent a garage at Daytona for $30 and Mid-Ohio wants $120 (on a regional weekend, it goes up for "Major" events) for a sh!t-hole of a garage.

 

Finally, beach vs. cornfield... Hmmmmmm, if I'm burning the same amount of gas... hmmm what to do.

[Jim Drago]

Totally unrelated to Hallett, but maybe says something about the Majors. Registration for the May 3-4 Daytona double regional/SECS (Runoff points) races has been open 1 1/2 days and already has 27 SM entries. Regional fee is $200, SECS fee is $220. Double dip classes for another $100. For $150 you can add a 75 minute enduro. Garages rents for $30. One could enter 2 classes and an enduro and still be less than the single Majors entry.
 
Daytona Beach and Jennings, OK are within 50 miles of being the same distance from my home. Guess where my money will be spent.
 
PS: The June Majors at Mid-O is 45 minutes from my house. At $590 per entry it's a big no go.

Daytona is Daytona.. CFR enjoys having Sebring and Daytona in their region, lots of racers and good weather. It is a chicken and the egg deal. Daytona can charge less at this regional b/c there will be a bunch of people there to share the expense. Hallett could charge $100 a person and still not have half the entries of Daytona. I think it is fair to say, while the majors price can be part of the factor at some of the smaller races like Hallet, it is not the only and probably not even the primary factor for lower attendance. They could probably raise the price to 1000 at Road Atlanta and Sebring majors and still have large fields. It all boils down to supply and demand I suppose. Some tracks and areas of the country will always have what we want and most will likely pay for what we want. ( read in premier tracks)
I love Hallett, but if It was 8 hrs to Hallett or 8 hours to Daytona, I would go to Daytona as well, only because it is Daytona and be practice for next year a bit early.

[KW78]

This has baffled me as well...
Not what else we could provide.. great track, great people running it, it is a double, it is one of the least expensive majors we run, we have out own run group? Why we don't have 25 plus cars is beyond me. Short of moving the track to the SE or Texas.. I have no other solution?

 

Well I applaud that the question is being asked! 

 

I have a question too:  Jim, why are you going to this event?  It looks like you are running 2 classes, and if I understand the points right, you can not take any points home to your region with you.  How big of a trip is this for you?

 

I had planned on going to hallett.  I had planned on taking 3 other SM's as well.  Instead, the 5 active SM customers I have racing over the next 45 days are not interested in the majors this year.  3 SMs instead, are going to do a local NASA event this weekend where the entry is $309, $150 for a test day.  Warmup, qual, race 1 (30 min) race 2 (25 min) EACH DAY.  Winner of race 1 EACH day gets 2 tires from Toyo, BFG, Hoosier, and I think Yokohama. - providing 5 starters.  The only NON majors (significant) contengency now available thru SCCA is for SM.

 

Here are the watercooler things I hear, much of which I agree:

 

• The majors last year went OK, but replacing nationals completely, and taking all the contengency with it, has lost alot of people.  Especially non-SM people.
• Prices!!  are you kidding?  And less track time than last year, which even then was also a reduction from standard nationals. 
• Organizers can use the excuse/justification if they want that the entry fee isn't that major of an expense in the scheme of things, but that misses the point that it is a slap in the face and just more significant erosion of value.
• SCCA powers better realize that the other clubs are pulling off events with nearly half the cost.  Instead of excuses why ours is so much, find out why theirs isn't and react.  There is a drivers school this weekend here for vintage that is $300 - on our forums it was brought up that we would have to charge $600 for the same local event.  That is 2 local events this weekend for around $300 entry.
• The majors started with COTA, the mother of all expensive races and it was a cluster.
• Everyone that returned to Colo from Eagles Canyon basically had not much good to say.  5 people I personally know say they will not return to that facillity and it was not appropriate for a majors.  TWS should of been used.
• Our traditional first national used to be around memorial day.  Who made this schedule???  The weather splits the country horizontally, not vertically for traveling and racing!!  Our Race 1 for points was 1400 miles away in feb!  Race 2 was 1000 miles away in March, and it had bad weather.  Race 3 this weekend is 700 miles away,  Race 4 and 5 Local are 3 weeks apart in MAY, and then........   no racing in the summer....   all done until labor day, 600 miles away for the last points race of the mid states majors...  really?
• So then some people such as myself were contemplating that going to Hallet, local 1 and 2, and then Topeka at the end was still doable.  THEN the announcement that the RUNOFFS PRICE NEARLY DOUBLES, parking you can't fit in, can't park with your friends, NO PETS, and $500 to stay in your trailer...  
• That announcement lost 12 to 20 majors entries, because the point of Majors just got lost.

 

Right or wrong, logically founded or not, that is how many SCCA customers feel from this area. 

 

Kyle

[Jim Drago]

 

I have a question too:  Jim, why are you going to this event?  It looks like you are running 2 classes, and if I understand the points right, you can not take any points home to your region with you.  How big of a trip is this for you?
 

Kyle

Kyle
I am a lone wolf as far as division/region / conference.. Most assume I am south east Div. I am actually mid div.. Being on the conference border. I run multiple conferences, but not many in any one conference.

I just like to race, like to race at the tracks I like. Hallet is one of them. I don't chase any of the points championships anymore, not since 06 and 07 when I really wanted to win the division. Since then, any points title that I have won has just kind of worked out by doing well in the races we scheduled to go to. I have never added races for more points etc. Just go to the races I want to race. I actually won Mid States conference and National points title last year as well, but only did three Mid States weekends.

I have to do three majors weekends to qualify for the Runoffs, typically I run about 6-8 weekends.. They are typical scattered..

 

This year

two eastern ( Sebring and Road Atlanta)
one Mid states ( Hallett should have been two but missed NOLA)
Two Northern (Sprints and Mid Ohio)

Not enough to win any conference title, but all are typically where you will find the best competition and I enjoy all of those tracks. Personally I do not mind paying the extra $200 or whatever the additional cost is for a majors at these tracks because I enjoy racing at these tracks against the level of competition attending these events. The weekend you are talking about would not be fun for me, even at half the cost as the competition is not there.  Different strokes for different folks and I realize my opinion here is probably in the minority.  I have said in the past, if I heard that Vettel, Alonso, Jimmie Johnson and a few other of the best guys were racing a SM someone in the US... I would find my way there, could care less how bad I was beaten, just enjoy the competition.

Jim 
Jim

[James York]

I can't speak for the others, but for me its just bad timing this weekend. I have historically run this race in the past but my personal and work schedule precluded me from doing it this year. The other racers that I have spoken to in Texas have a similar story. I DO appreciate our own run group especially at Hallett as this has been an issue in the past. I think to some extent the lack of Texas racers has a compounding effect. We all want to race against each other and when participation starts to drop for whatever reason, there isnt that extra kick to get you to blow off whatever is keeping you from attending and go.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Brian W

 

Oh... and this race is in a different region so at least for me when I look at the schedule and plan out the races I am doing at the beginning of the year, this one always gets left off and I have to scramble to make the event. I'm just not used to checking the ark valley race schedule as this is the only race most of us do from that region.

 

Hallett is a great track and event.  But I am in a similar situation as Brian.  I just returned from 11 days overseas and besides being totally tired, my family wouldn't appreciated me packing up and leaving for another 5 when you include the tow distance (10 hours each way).

 

Personally, I think serious review of the majors in our conference needs to be done.  The majority of the events, are AWAY from the racing base.

[Butch Kummer]

As I suspected/feared, the purpose of my post is not clear. The event currently has 146 people pre-registered (compared to 117 in 2013 and 116 in 2012) and I'm not sure Hallett can handle many more cars than that. I understand people have different priorities and the Majors program is certainly not for everyone, I was just pointing out the difficulties in developing a weekend schedule that will satisfy everyone.

We (understandably) caught grief last year for not giving SM it's own run group while SRF ran by themselves with eight fewer cars. All I'm saying is if AVRG suggests combining SM with other classes next year (maybe STU, T4 and/or B-Spec) I'll have a difficult time arguing against doing that.

The Mid-States Majors schedule came together very late in the year and with the demise of TWS as an option it will undergo additional changes in 2015. i.e. - it's under "serious review"...

[Jim Drago]

As I suspected/feared, the purpose of my post is not clear. The event currently has 146 people pre-registered (compared to 117 in 2013 and 116 in 2012) and I'm not sure Hallett can handle many more cars than that. I understand people have different priorities and the Majors program is certainly not for everyone, I was just pointing out the difficulties in developing a weekend schedule that will satisfy everyone.

We (understandably) caught grief last year for not giving SM it's own run group while SRF ran by themselves with eight fewer cars. All I'm saying is if AVRG suggests combining SM with other classes next year (maybe STU, T4 and/or B-Spec) I'll have a difficult time arguing against doing that.

The Mid-States Majors schedule came together very late in the year and with the demise of TWS as an option it will undergo additional changes in 2015. i.e. - it's under "serious review"...

 

 

Butch

I fully understand.. Kind of like predicting the future. If and when we are combined next year, we only have ourselves to blame.  I won't like it, neither will any of the other guys.. But any rational person should understand that. ( I just realized I used rational in a sentence describing SM racers: )  )   I can almost guarantee next year if we are combined, we will see more cars again then SRF and the same complaints will be logged

Jim

[MPR22]

As I suspected/feared, the purpose of my post is not clear. The event currently has 146 people pre-registered (compared to 117 in 2013 and 116 in 2012) and I'm not sure Hallett can handle many more cars than that. I understand people have different priorities and the Majors program is certainly not for everyone, I was just pointing out the difficulties in developing a weekend schedule that will satisfy everyone.

We (understandably) caught grief last year for not giving SM it's own run group while SRF ran by themselves with eight fewer cars. All I'm saying is if AVRG suggests combining SM with other classes next year (maybe STU, T4 and/or B-Spec) I'll have a difficult time arguing against doing that.

The Mid-States Majors schedule came together very late in the year and with the demise of TWS as an option it will undergo additional changes in 2015. i.e. - it's under "serious review"...

Butch, 

 

I think the biggest problem with this years SM attendance may be the complete lack of continuity in the schedule for the SowDiv.  I realize Hallett is out of our division but Texas drivers usually make up about 1/3 of the field.   Like it or not we get use to things happening on roughly the same weekend in our division and this years schedule has been a mess.  Many of us have committed to racing the NASA events because of the changes.  Unlike Jim D. some of us only have so much money to spend in any one year.  Travelling to the west coast for the run-offs is not likely for most of the racers in Texas so we are not making qualifying for it via the Majors a priority.  I know we have about 10-15 racers going to the East Coast NASA champs at Road Atlanta this year and accordingly we are racing NASA events to qualify.  

 

As for losing TWS for next year, don't bet on the track being shut down.  I know the investment group that bought the track very well, if its making money and nobody buys the property from them, I would bet on it being open again in 2015.   

[Bench Racer]

East of Denver, posted on the production car site by Mazda Jon/GTL driver. Scroll to 3rd post.
http://prodracing.co...php?f=5&t=15322

[Butch Kummer]

As for losing TWS for next year, don't bet on the track being shut down.  I know the investment group that bought the track very well, if its making money and nobody buys the property from them, I would bet on it being open again in 2015.

Obviously we'll see what happens, but that is indeed good to hear.

[Butch Kummer]

Regarding conference realignment, there is discussion about arranging them longitudinally rather laterally - Southern, Northern, and West Coast (where you could still have North to South travel issues to early events). The sticking point is STILL what to do about the Mid-States.

Maybe it should be a separate thread, but suggestions are welcome...

[wheel]

I love that post.  Hallett just east of Denver.  Yup, about 666 miles east.  

 

wheel

[Johnny D]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=dalrphHivOs

J~

[FTodaro]

Totally unrelated to Hallett, but maybe says something about the Majors. Registration for the May 3-4 Daytona double regional/SECS (Runoff points) races has been open 1 1/2 days and already has 27 SM entries. Regional fee is $200, SECS fee is $220. Double dip classes for another $100. For $150 you can add a 75 minute enduro. Garages rents for $30. One could enter 2 classes and an enduro and still be less than the single Majors entry.

 

Daytona Beach and Jennings, OK are within 50 miles of being the same distance from my home. Guess where my money will be spent.

 

PS: The June Majors at Mid-O is 45 minutes from my house. At $590 per entry it's a big no go.

Ok R.G. Bargy

since i am on the OVR race committee putting on the Mid O event I have to give you the counter point.

 

Putting on a regional event is far less complicated and less costly than a Major's event.

Regional two day race, Majors 3 day event.

Also what Most racers do not see is that the track rental goes up every year including, cost of keeping track open 24hr, all the extras that are needed for a Major including the extra people drive up the cost of a majors weekend.

Not to mention the stress it puts on the region sponsoring the event both in terms of the finances and the manpower to make it work. I have been attending race meetings since December planning the May event.

there are lots of people giving up a lot of time to make it happen, who volunteer, the cost to you is simply the cost to the region with a modest profit if it goes well and a loss if it does not. 

 

Our 3 day major is 580.00

I just signed up for the NASA weekend at mid ohio next weekend it was 631.98, and you get your own run group in SCCA.

My point its reasonable and competitive

 

.

[LarryKing]

Counter counterpoint. For me 3 days is 1 day too long (because really it's not necessary, but preferable, to set-up Thursday). One more reason I'm not interested in Majors.

 

What exactly is more complex?

 

According to the NASA Great Lakes website the race group entry is $399. What did the extra $232.98 buy?

 

The point when cost exceeds value. 

[Ron Alan]

Great news Denny(R.G.B.)...

 

Breaking news on Drudge today that the new "Affordable Racing Act" has made it to the Presidents desk and he will be signing it into law within weeks. This will allow all those who deserve to race a fair opportunity. As you have noticed, the rates at events has been going up(shhhh! keep this under your hat!). The real reason is we know the rich will pay any amount of money to race and even more to win! This will allow the race organizers to siphon off of that large excess so guys like you and i can race for free...cant wait!

[LarryKing]

If enough racers have the means, the time and the desire then the Majors program should thrive. If not, oh well.

 

A smart business (or in this case a club) should welcome, maybe even seek, negative feedback.

 

Ron, Lay off the Mush Lardball Show - that shiz'll kill yer brain cells.

[LarryKing]

 

I have said in the past, if I heard that Vettel, Alonso, Jimmie Johnson and a few other of the best guys were racing a SM someone in the US... I would find my way there, could care less how bad I was beaten, just enjoy the competition.

I certainly understand your point of view (you kinda lost me with Jimmy "Cheatin" Johnson).

 

On the other hand Max Chilton is on track at the same time as Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton, but I don't think you could say he raced them.

[FTodaro]

Counter counterpoint. For me 3 days is 1 day too long (because really it's not necessary, but preferable, to set-up Thursday). One more reason I'm not interested in Majors.

 

What exactly is more complex?

 

According to the NASA Great Lakes website the race group entry is $399. What did the extra $232.98 buy?

 

The point when cost exceeds value. 

399 is sat and Sunday Friday practice is plus tax is the remainder that is the 3 day total. Weather you get something out of the Friday practice/qualifying is up to you, my point is that it costs money to rent the track and your local region is doing all it can to keep the cost reasonable and competitive.

 

You can always just to I racing.