67 replies to this topic

[Butch Kummer]

Matt,

 

I understand your point as well, but if we use only the fast race lap on Saturday to set the grid for Sunday's race then what about the driver who sets a track record in qualifying but gets taken out (or breaks) on the first lap of Saturday's race?  Assuming they get the car back together for Sunday, does s/he then have to start from the back?

 

I do appreciate your self-recognition that you "may" be biased, though.

[MPR22]

Matt,
 
I understand your point as well, but if we use only the fast race lap on Saturday to set the grid for Sunday's race then what about the driver who sets a track record in qualifying but gets taken out (or breaks) on the first lap of Saturday's race?  Assuming they get the car back together for Sunday, does s/he then have to start from the back?
 
I do appreciate your self-recognition that you "may" be biased, though.

Butch,

You are using one of the unlikeliest of scenarios as a reason not to change a process. If everyone played the what if game there would never be a good enough reason to change. I haven't been negatively or positively affected by the current rule so I am not biased. Or you could try a third option and use early Saturdays qualifying session to set the Sunday grid. It's short but obviously long enough to warrant consideration. I'm sure there are reasons not to but if you asked the competitors (hint ) you might find they have a preference.

[Matt Reynolds]

Butch,

You are using one of the unlikeliest of scenarios as a reason not to change a process. If everyone played the what if game there would never be a good enough reason to change. I haven't been negatively or positively affected by the current rule so I am not biased. Or you could try a third option and use early Saturdays qualifying session to set the Sunday grid. It's short but obviously long enough to warrant consideration. I'm sure there are reasons not to but if you asked the competitors (hint ) you might find they have a preference.

 

 

My perspective is that the process has been changed.  Previously in our division in this situation the grid was set by the immediately preceding race's lap times.  On a typical weekend with weather being cooler in the morning and warmer in the afternoon both of the races are absolutely dependent upon one qualifying session.  This puts those that do not have the time to run on Friday at a Major disadvantage (I'll claim that as a pun).

 

I can see the arguments that can be made for both sides.  Two different approaches to achieving the same result of setting a grid for Sunday's race. 

 

Just my take on the matter.

 

-Matt

[Butch Kummer]

But things HAVE changed since 2013 at Hallett. Last year with six groups it was qualify and race on Saturday, then qualify and race again on Sunday - two entirely separate "events" for all intents and purposes. In order to accommodate the SM drivers request for a stand-alone run group we added a seventh run group, and there simply isn't enough time in the day to run the "Q/R, Q/R" format for that many run groups.

 

I'm open to suggestions on how to make that work (that are fair for all parties)...

[Jim Drago]

Probably not a Hallet thread..
It really doesn't matter to me as I could be on either side of the fence in the future. Much of this started at the Runoffs last year with the weather. It would have made zero difference to me as I was fastest in both sessions first and third. I don't think Butch's scenario is that far fetched, see 2011 Runoffs

A couple arguments for the other side just to take the other side.

-Why would we weigh sessions in the weekend any heavier than the beginning?
-Every one has the same opportunity to show up ready and prepared to "qualify" for qualifying.
-Race laps can be aided by multi car draft that may/may not happen in qualifying often with 4-5 fastest cars
-to a certain extent, you make your own luck. Show up prepared to qualify each and every session.
-bad/good luck is part of racing, real or manufactured.


If for some reason you have/had a problem in qualifying you have an opportunity to move up with a fast race lap. You also have the benefit of draft etc in race that you may/may not in qualifying, if in the top 4-5, you have the benefit of drafting the fastest guys in the field.

I think what we have now is fair for all, could work for you, could work against. IMO, a case could also be made that pole sitter in qualifying should not lose his/her time against a race lap? All the same arguments for could be used against.

My opinions have zero to do with this weekend. Matt and I could have started 10-11 in either order and the results would have been the same other than Matt could have beat me both days just as easily. But little to do with starting position. Not my point, nor do I think it is Matt's.

[LarryKing]

 

qualify for qualifying

Is this something new?

[MPR22]

Why would we weigh later in the weekend any heavier than the beginning?

Too many cheeseburgers?

[Jim Drago]

Comodians!