88 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

I wanted to bump this thread back. Butch and I have been talking about bringing this back for 2017...

 

any interest?

 

ideas?

 

Jim

[Butch Kummer]

30,000 foot view of what we've been talking about:

 

. Max of 15 double-race weekends in the program, plus the Runoffs.

. With a few exceptions driven by geography, all events would be at Bucket List tracks.

. Points are awarded per the Majors points structure, plus Bonus points (max of 25) for every person you finish ahead of (rewards doing well at highly-subscribed events).

. Cash/merchandise awards (per race) for top three plus one driver drawn at random.

. You count your best five race finishes plus the 2017 Runoffs to determine the Series Champion.

 

Obviously it improves your chances to run as many weekends as possible, but you could contend for the championship in as few as four weekends (three "local" events plus Indy).

 

Potential tracks:

. Sebring

. NOLA

. Road Atlanta

. VIR

. Watkins Glen

. PittRace or Mid-Ohio (but not both)

. NCM Raceway (Bowling Green)

. Road America (most likely the June Sprints)

. Hallett

. RMDiv event

. Auto Club Speedway

. Thunderhill

. Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca

. Portland

 

And obviously Indy.

 

Thoughts?

[MPR22]

30,000 foot view of what we've been talking about:

 

. Max of 15 double-race weekends in the program, plus the Runoffs.

. With a few exceptions driven by geography, all events would be at Bucket List tracks.

. Points are awarded per the Majors points structure, plus Bonus points (max of 25) for every person you finish ahead of (rewards doing well at highly-subscribed events).

. Cash/merchandise awards (per race) for top three plus one driver drawn at random.

. You count your best five race finishes plus the 2017 Runoffs to determine the Series Champion.

 

Obviously it improves your chances to run as many weekends as possible, but you could contend for the championship in as few as four weekends (three "local" events plus Indy).

 

Potential tracks:

. Sebring

. NOLA

. Road Atlanta

. VIR

. Watkins Glen

. PittRace or Mid-Ohio (but not both)

. NCM Raceway (Bowling Green)

. Road America (most likely the June Sprints)

. Hallett

. RMDiv event

. Auto Club Speedway

. Thunderhill

. Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca

. Portland

 

And obviously Indy.

 

Thoughts?

COTA?  May be too late but we sure would like race 80+ SM's again.  

As a series it would be very hard to attend 15 out of state races.  Narrow it down to 7 and then we could talk.  

 

Sebring, Road Atlanta, VIR, Road America, COTA, Sonoma, Thunderhill

[Butch Kummer]

COTA?  May be too late but we sure would like race 80+ SM's again.  

As a series it would be very hard to attend 15 out of state races.  Narrow it down to 7 and then we could talk.  

 

Sebring, Road Atlanta, VIR, Road America, COTA, Sonoma, Thunderhill

 

Reading comprehension is your friend! 

 

= = = = =

 

. You count your best five race finishes plus the 2017 Runoffs to determine the Series Champion.

 

Obviously it improves your chances to run as many weekends as possible, but you could contend for the championship in as few as four weekends (three "local" events plus Indy).

 

= = = = = 

 

Those in SWDiv could run NOLA and Hallett, then pick the most attractive between Atlanta, Bowling Green or maybe RMDiv, then attend the Runoffs.

 

And if SWDiv were to run CoTA again it would certainly be on the list.

[Rob Burgoon]

I'd drop all west coast events.

 

Also Willow Springs is far, far better than Auto club.

[MPR22]

Reading comprehension is your friend! 

 

= = = = =

 

. You count your best five race finishes plus the 2017 Runoffs to determine the Series Champion.

 

Obviously it improves your chances to run as many weekends as possible, but you could contend for the championship in as few as four weekends (three "local" events plus Indy).

 

= = = = = 

 

Those in SWDiv could run NOLA and Hallett, then pick the most attractive between Atlanta, Bowling Green or maybe RMDiv, then attend the Runoffs

I can read, I jus think that if we limit it to 7 tracks spread around we can get more racers from each area to make the trip.  I would absolutely hit all of the tracks I listed.  However if it was 15 tracks I would choose to only hit the ones closest with the $$$ available. So the west coast tracks would not see me nor many others from the south and east coasts.  Also how to you crown a champion when half the group races west coast and the other half east coast.  Watch how the national points championship gets tight at the end of the season when people in weaker divisions start piling up points.  Not saying that west coast doesn't have great drivers, just not nearly as many as the south and east coast attract.  

[Butch Kummer]

I'd drop all west coast events.

 

Also Willow Springs is far, far better than Auto club.

Duly noted on Willow Springs - that would certainly be open to discussion. So you want to continue to dump on the West Coast drivers until the Runoffs return to the West Coast in 2018? Is that the way to build a National program?

[Butch Kummer]

I can read, I jus think that if we limit it to 7 tracks spread around we can get more racers from each area to make the trip.  I would absolutely hit all of the tracks I listed.  However if it was 15 tracks I would choose to only hit the ones closest with the $$$ available. So the west coast tracks would not see me nor many others from the south and east coasts.  Also how to you crown a champion when half the group races west coast and the other half east coast.  Watch how the national points championship gets tight at the end of the season when people in weaker divisions start piling up points.  Not saying that west coast doesn't have great drivers, just not nearly as many as the south and east coast attract.

Brian G has data that indicates the average SCCA racer runs just over two weekends a year, so MOST people will not run seven weekends scattered all over the country. But if we can get them to run even four weekends a year that's within most people's budgets.

 

The Bonus points element rewards those participating at the more highly-subscribed events. And it's your best five finishes (which can be done in three weekends while giving you a mulligan) PLUS the Runoffs, so it's most likely the championship contenders will face each other at Indy (or wherever) even if they compete in distant parts of the country during the year.

[Jim Drago]

If we based it on 2016 majors program ( would be in conjunction)

 

 

 
 
Jan. 15-17 - Sebring International Raceway, Sebring, Fla.
 
March 18-20 - Road Atlanta, Braselton, Ga.
April 15-17 - VIRginia International Raceway, Alton, Va. (With Northeast)

 
June 3-5 - Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course, Lexington, Ohio (With Northern)
June 24-26 - Watkins Glen International, Watkins Glen, N.Y.
 

 
June 17-19 - Road America, Elkhart Lake, Wis.
 

 
Feb. 27-28 - NOLA Motorsports Park, Avondale, La. (With Southeast)
 

 

 

as far as west coast.. I would like to run Laguna and Sonoma and maybe add COTA if SCCA ever goes back?

 maybe in conjuction with their regional?  I dont know the other tracks listed below.. but  as a non west coast guy, none  seem like bucket list tracks?

Western Conference
Jan. 29-31 - Auto Club Speedway, Fontana, Calif.
Feb. 20-21 – Willow Springs Int'l Raceway, Rosamond, Calif.
April 8-10 - Thunderhill Raceway Park, Willows, Calif.
April 29-May 1 - Buttonwillow Raceway Park, Buttonwillow, Calif.
May 28-30 - Pacific Raceway, Kent, Wash.
July 2-3 - Portland International Raceway, Portland, Ore.

[Jim Drago]

Michael
I went to quote your post and deleted, sorry  I will quote it from Butch's post.
Jim
 
 

I can read, I jus think that if we limit it to 7 tracks spread around we can get more racers from each area to make the trip.  I would absolutely hit all of the tracks I listed.  However if it was 15 tracks I would choose to only hit the ones closest with the $$$ available. So the west coast tracks would not see me nor many others from the south and east coasts.  Also how to you crown a champion when half the group races west coast and the other half east coast.  Watch how the national points championship gets tight at the end of the season when people in weaker divisions start piling up points.  Not saying that west coast doesn't have great drivers, just not nearly as many as the south and east coast attract.

 
 
 
 
I do think narrowing it down is a good idea.  This years national points title will go to Tyler Kicera as he will likely end up with 7 wins.. Me in second with 6 and Steve Powers in third or close to that. NONE of us have raced each other anywhere... That is not what we want, I dont think. 
 
make it four best of 7 and the runoffs or less races may be a good idea. the fewer the total races, the more particpation we can get. If it is sucessful, we can always add more?  I think the problems with first nationals and now majors, there are just too many.
 
Jim

[Butch Kummer]

I could be wrong, but I don't see the series being successful if contending for the championship requires 70% of the country to travel more than one day to events prior to the Runoffs. That's why I included three weekends at tracks within one day's drive of MOST of the country.

[davew]

I'll throw out my 2 cents worth.

 

Since SCCA already has too many championship programs. let's do it our selves. Each of the sponsors from this site put up some cash to support trophys, tech, party, etc. Not a lot, just a little cash. Maybe Mazda would throw a bone or 2 at it.

 

limit it to 6-7 weekends at only the super premier tracks. My list would be;

Sebring in January

Nola in February

Atlanta in March

VIR in April

Mid Ohio in May

Road America in June

Watkins Glen, hopefully not a week after Sprints

 

Count your best 6 finishes using Majors point system plus # of cars you beat.

 

Only required to do 3 events (2 races per event)

 

Runoffs count double.

 

Yes, these are all east coast tracks. Set up a separate program for the west coast racers. My thought would be Sonoma, Thunderhill, Laguna, Portland ???? maybe include Sprints or NOLA as crossover events as they are fairly central east to west.

 

Many moons ago, this is how the old HFC Pro Atlantic program was run. You started together and ended together, but the main season was separated east and west.

 

this is close to my view on how the Majors should be. Sorry but Gingerman, Chuckwala, Blackhawk etc are NOT the big races. They may be fun, well run, but they are not the same as Sprints, Atlanta etc.

 

Dave

[Mike Collins]

COTA?  May be too late but we sure would like race 80+ SM's again.  

As a series it would be very hard to attend 15 out of state races.  Narrow it down to 7 and then we could talk.  

 

Sebring, Road Atlanta, VIR, Road America, COTA, Sonoma, Thunderhill

Sounds like you should come race Global Cup....  Mazda Raceway Laguna, Watkins, Road America, Canadian Tire, VIR, Road Atlanta....  I think next year we will get a 7th event... Probably Sebring.....

[Jim Drago]

I'll throw out my 2 cents worth.
 
Since SCCA already has too many championship programs. let's do it our selves. Each of the sponsors from this site put up some cash to support trophys, tech, party, etc. Not a lot, just a little cash. Maybe Mazda would throw a bone or 2 at it.
 
limit it to 6-7 weekends at only the super premier tracks. My list would be;
Sebring in January
Nola in February
Atlanta in March
VIR in April
Mid Ohio in May
Road America in June
Watkins Glen, hopefully not a week after Sprints
 
Count your best 6 finishes using Majors point system plus # of cars you beat.
 
Only required to do 3 events (2 races per event)
 
Runoffs count double.
 
Yes, these are all east coast tracks. Set up a separate program for the west coast racers. My thought would be Sonoma, Thunderhill, Laguna, Portland ???? maybe include Sprints or NOLA as crossover events as they are fairly central east to west.
 
Many moons ago, this is how the old HFC Pro Atlantic program was run. You started together and ended together, but the main season was separated east and west.
 
this is close to my view on how the Majors should be. Sorry but Gingerman, Chuckwala, Blackhawk etc are NOT the big races. They may be fun, well run, but they are not the same as Sprints, Atlanta etc.
 R
Dave

That's what are proposing.. With maybe some outside sponsors as well.. But not a Scca sanctioned championship

[Rob Burgoon]

Duly noted on Willow Springs - that would certainly be open to discussion. So you want to continue to dump on the West Coast drivers until the Runoffs return to the West Coast in 2018? Is that the way to build a National program?

 

 

If you want to build a tour, you have a much better shot at success if you keep it to the eastern half of the US.  We'll get back to you when we can arrive and drive the rest of the schedule.

 

Throw us some left coast runoffs every third or fourth year and don't require the tour for runoffs participation and we're happy.  

[Butch Kummer]

If you want to build a tour, you have a much better shot at success if you keep it to the eastern half of the US.  We'll get back to you when we can arrive and drive the rest of the schedule.

 

Throw us some left coast runoffs every third or fourth year and don't require the tour for runoffs participation and we're happy.  

 

Rob,

 

Do you think most of the West Coast drivers feel this way (at least until they see the Runoffs return on a regular basis)? If so, a 7-8 weekend, eastern half of the US series becomes more feasible.

[Butch Kummer]

That's what are proposing.. With maybe some outside sponsors as well.. But Scca sanctioned championship

 

If SCCA (National) decides to play they CAN bring something to the table from a promotional standpoint, but this doesn't need to be an SCCA-sanctioned championship if they choose not to play nicely. That said, doing it as part of the Majors series means all the events will be double-race weekends with somewhat consistent formats.

 

And if the majority of the West Coast drivers agree with Rob, that makes scheduling at nothing but Bucket List tracks a lot easier...

[Rob Burgoon]

Rob,

 

Do you think most of the West Coast drivers feel this way (at least until they see the Runoffs return on a regular basis)? If so, a 7-8 weekend, eastern half of the US series becomes more feasible.

 

 

I can't speak for the west, but pretend you live in LA, make $115k and have 2 weeks vacation a year.   Just how many east cost tour events do you realistically see that person making it to?

 

Does having 3 west events out of 15 suddenly make west coasters attend the other 12?  Will many eastern folks go 2,500miles each way to visit the 3 west events?

 

I would start with a schedule you can see my 115k racer (relocated to virginia) actually making it to. (and whatever that schedule is, it almost certainly won't include the west)

 

edit: let's not forget to leave time and budget for the 5 day snorefest

[Butch Kummer]

I can't speak for the west, but pretend you live in LA, make $115k and have 2 weeks vacation a year.   Just how many east cost tour events do you realistically see that person making it to?

 

Does having 3 west events out of 15 suddenly make west coasters attend the other 12?  Will many eastern folks go 2,500miles each way to visit the 3 west events?

 

I would start with a schedule you can see my 115k racer (relocated to virginia) actually making it to (and that schedule won't include the west).

 

And again, your driver in LA doesn't NEED to make any of the other 12 events except the Runoffs! If there are four west coast events (SoCal, Portland, and two in the Bay area), s/he can pick three of those four to attend and make one long trip to wherever the Runoffs are that year and still contend for the series championship. In those years the Runoffs are on the west coast, the rest of the country has the same option.

 

Run three (relatively local) events PLUS the Runoffs and you've got a shot at getting a call from somebody claiming to be Roger Penske...

[Rob Burgoon]

And again, your driver in LA doesn't NEED to make any of the other 12 events except the Runoffs! If there are four west coast events (SoCal, Portland, and two in the Bay area), s/he can pick three of those four to attend and make one long trip to wherever the Runoffs are that year and still contend for the series championship. In those years the Runoffs are on the west coast, the rest of the country has the same option.

 

Run three (relatively local) events PLUS the Runoffs and you've got a shot at getting a call from somebody claiming to be Roger Penske...

 

Is it really a tour if a core of quick people aren't touring with it?