856 replies to this topic

[LarryKing]

 

Maybe you should stop swinging from Drago's nuts

 

That might be my favorite specmiata.com / mazdaracers post of all time.

[Alex Bolanos]

Sorry Sebastion the competitor is responsible for THEIR car. I bet you will be checking your TI SPEED motor as you can guess it is probably illegal even though you didnt ask for it.

 

And Kyle I actualy built my motor and yes it is 100% legal if you don't beleive it put up some money. You need to shut your mouth as yet again you have proven you don't know a damn thing about anything. Maybe you should stop swinging from Drago's nuts, it sounds like you have bunch of motors to start disassembling.      

 

A few observations:

 

•  I expected a lot more posts with this tone during this discussion, do you offer consulting services for other subjects?  
• You have NO idea if your engine is tech shed legal, you've never been in the tech shed.  Some rules (such as the STR one) have no concrete measurement or tool to check which means the tech officials (those guys you see in runoffs/nasa champs threads) could decide one way or the other.
• People shutting their mouths is counterproductive in solving this problem, this has been a good discussion thus far and a solution will be found soon.
• Stop crying because you drive a 1.6 and Craig Berry makes the number 29 look MUCH better than you, why are you 1.6 guys so predictable?

Love,

Alex

[MPR22]

While its impossible to say at this point what the long term ramifications will be stemming from this event, I can  say first hand that it may have already effected me.

 

About 10 days ago I was in the process of securing a backup motor. I sent the seller my money and was in the process of arranging shipment.

 

However, on Sunday and in the midst of the post race inspections I called the seller to re-affirm that the motor he was selling me was in deed "a legal motor".( I had to leave a voice mail)

I also asked that he provide me with written confirmation of the same ,hence the application of "trust but verity".

 

Three calls and 2+ days later I'm still waiting.

 

FWIW., the seller posts on this forum so I'm hoping he will do the right thing and return my money if the motor does not pass muster. I hate for this to get ugly.

 

Tom B.

Are you ready to not buy a motor at all or just demand that it be compliant in light of the SCCA's ruling.  The same engine builder would have likely told you yes to the legal question without any hesitation a week ago.  Do you really think that several engine builders, not just one, thought they were sending engines to customers that couldn't pass the tear down at the run-offs?  I am sure the builder will be happy to give you a 100% no gray area touched motor.   

[Caveman-kwebb99]

it was certainly a very stern reprimand.  I could build my own engine also but I know it would be certain to be illegal i have about as much idea about it as boy wonder does

[LarryKing]

 

tech shed legal

 

There's yer trouble. The Runoffs DQs were all tech shed legal, right up until the tech shed changed. Too bad this class can't race GCR legal instead. (I know, I know)

 

 

why are you 1.6 guys so predictable?

 

Ahh, the very essence of productive posts.

[FTodaro]

Sorry Sebastion the competitor is responsible for THEIR car. I bet you will be checking your TI SPEED motor as you can guess it is probably illegal even though you didnt ask for it.
 
And Kyle I actualy built my motor and yes it is 100% legal if you don't beleive it put up some money. You need to shut your mouth as yet again you have proven you don't know a damn thing about anything. It sounds like you have bunch of motors to start disassembling.

Nice,
 
I would correct your spelling but i am bad at that too.
 
everyone is entitled to their opinion please share yours without the personal attack if you want anyone to listen.

[David L]

I don't remember crying Alex, actually I am laughing, I sold my beautiful 1.6 just days ago and couldn't be happier. I have been teched in a tech shed and I have passed. Maybe the 1.6 owners wouldn't be crying so much if the cheaters hadn't written their cars out of the class years ago for their easier to cheat 99's and vvt cars.

 

But lets not forget that this cheating means nothing because these guys would win in no matter what car they were driving. LOL what a joke.

[AJ Roderick]

I don't remember crying Alex, actually I am laughing, I sold my beautiful 1.6 just days ago and couldn't be happier. I have been teched in a tech shed and I have passed. Maybe the 1.6 owners wouldn't be crying so much if the cheaters hadn't written their cars out of the class years ago for their easier to cheat 99's and vvt cars.

 

But lets not forget that this cheating means nothing because these guys would win in no matter what car they were driving. LOL what a joke.

 

I guess the 1.6's must be cheating just as much as the 99's and vvt cars at mid ohio then since a 1.6 was fast last weekend ( and many other weekends)

 

http://mazdaracers.c...gional/?p=66951

[High Chair]

That might be my favorite specmiata.com / mazdaracers post of all time.

Ok that is pretty funny.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Ok that is the pretty funny.

 

Dont be jelous sweety...

[Todd Green]

I found that 10 HP (crate motor to Pro motor) only improved my position a little (the nut behind the wheel is most important).

I can't dispute your experience, but mine is vastly different.  This is what it looks like at my local track when you are down ~10 HP (2013 National Championship, and no the cars in front of me weren't cheating, I had issues).:

 

 

With the long front straight that we have, even if you pass someone in the twisty bits, you'll get repassed on that straight or the back straight.  (Usually by more than one person.)  While I was having issues, I struggled to win races (regionally).  As soon as I got the power issue fixed, I won by like 40 seconds at the very next race.  (Of course a lot had to do with just being able to check out while positions 2-X fought it out, but again that is still an advantage of having power.)

 

IMO writing off power is like saying there is no difference between stickers and someone's take offs.  No it isn't going to make up 10 seconds, but it is worth a good 1-2.  And while it doesn't make a drastic difference in lap time, it definitely makes the car a hell of a lot easier to race.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I can't dispute your experience, but mine is vastly different.  This is what it looks like at my local track when you are down ~10 HP (2013 National Championship, and no the cars in front of me weren't cheating, I had issues).:

 

 

With the long front straight that we have, even if you pass someone in the twisty bits, you'll get repassed on that straight or the back straight.  (Usually by more than one person.)  While I was having issues, I struggled to win races (regionally).  As soon as I got the power issue fixed, I won by like 40 seconds at the very next race.  (Of course a lot had to do with just being able to check out while positions 2-X fought it out, but again that is still an advantage of having power.)

 

IMO writing off power is like saying there is no difference between stickers and someone's take offs.  No it isn't going to make up 10 seconds, but it is worth a good 1-2.  And while it doesn't make a drastic difference in lap time, it definitely makes the car a hell of a lot easier to race.

 

Well said...

[Ron Alan]

There's yer trouble. The Runoffs DQs were all tech shed legal, right up until the tech shed changed. Too bad this class can't race GCR legal instead. (I know, I know)

 

 

Ahh, the very essence of productive posts.

Ding ding ding!  Based on what Craig said, I suspect the current issue at hand has passed tech with flying colors. And I suspect without being noticed. And if it was noticed all the more reason Jim and others felt confident in their conclusions on the small changes made after the plunge cut. My understanding this year is the top 3 passed tech based on the list SCCA created (this was posted earlier). 

 

If I understand correctly, it requires a small mirror to see the area in question best? But maybe not as Charlie said his grandmother could see the difference!

As many have asked for just so better conclusions may be drawn...someone has to have pictures??

[Ron Alan]

You learn something new everyday...apparently you can "like" only a limited amount of posts in a day here...lol

[Justin Elder]

I've been watching this the past few days.  Lots of good information and opinions here.  I don't have a problem with this protest.  I think it is good to keep the class in check and keep it from creeping further than it has.  My opinion on if this was the right way to bring it to everyone's attention is only my opinion so I'll keep that part to myself.

 

I would imagine I'm just like every other customer that's ever bought an engine from one of the pro builders.  I asked for an engine that is pushed to the limit but LEGAL, and I do believe my builder thought that is what he provided me.  I want to race with an engine that is built per the rules, and I can't be certain but per this ruling it is likely I currently have an illegal engine (like many others on here I'm sure).  What am I going to do?  Depending on what happens next with the rules, if necessary I'm going to go back to my same engine builder and acquire a new head that is built per the "correct" interpretation of the rules.  Do I think my results at next year's races will be any different than they were this year, for better or worse?  Absolutely not.  I understand the frustration and agree the rules need to be followed for the good and sportsmanship of the class. But for the extremists on here that think this one thing they could find after years of tearing these guys down and finding them compliant is going to suddenly change finishing positions, I sure don't think it will.  Or that this is just one example of many cheats these guys are doing, I think you're wrong.  If you think so keep protesting!  My feeling is this situation won't be repeated often because there isn't anything else to find.   Put any one of these guys from the Runoffs that were found to be non-compliant in your own 'compliant' car, and its likely they will drive it faster than you.  I've been a mid-pack guy and of late I've occasionally been able to hang with these guys up front, and I can tell you there is a very distinct difference in driving ability.  You can keep telling yourself whatever makes you feel good though.

 

  It was a good protest to keep the class in check, but let's not blow its effect out of proportion.  Since the first two cars ever raced and the first rulebook ever came out, people have been pushing the limits of both.  What's different here?  Good or bad, there are limits to be pushed in the rulebook, and I don't blame people for trying to push them as long as they truly thought they were within the boundaries set forth.   We get this rule worked out and move on, a few people here along the way who unknowingly broke this rule will suffer in some way as the Runoffs contenders already have.  I'll go along with whatever the group feels is right, as I don't think it will make any difference in where I finish.

 

I raced for a few years in SRF.  I was competitive, but found it stale.  Though some people on here do, I don't want that for Spec Miata.

[Bad Rusty]

Couldn't help it

 

[Yiannis Tsiounis]

I accept the fact that there is a certain budget that is right for me and a certain budget that is acceptable for the pointy end of the field.  I accept that no amount of rules will change that budget and I accept that there is only so much I can do with my committed budget, even considering diminishing returns.

 

I am not excited about a sealed motor program because I'm a cheap SOB.

I thought the whole idea of a sealed motor is that it would be cheaper! Unless you mean the one-off expense to move to it-- but should it cost more than an engine refresh? You take your motor and have it tuned to spec and sealed. That's it. In fact, they can seal the whole thing: intake/exhaust/motor, without removing it from the car. Then you can't swap motors around to find the best one. 

 

I don't know anything about those things, so someone please explain why the above is not feasible. Or cheaper than an engine refresh (which is probably north of $3,000)

[David Bailey]

 Yesterday was the first time I read this forum and am a first time "poster".   I have been a Sports Car CLUB Member for 20 + years.  I have CLUB raced FV's, FF's and for the last 10 years SPEC Miata.  I enjoy AMATEUR athletics as the sports' usually involve a certain level of self-policed fairness and camaraderie.  Please note, I have highlighted CLUB twice and SPEC and AMATEUR once apiece.  The idea of SM is beautiful, low costs, close racing, a drivers class.  The practice of SM has become a different animal.  As the National Leaders of our class, I expect a certain degree of fairness, integrity and respect for your fellow class members.  I am not crying or spewing sour grapes, I am simply asking for everyone of us to take a good, hard, honest look at ourselves and our cars and ask,  Am I playing fair ?  Is my motor legal or kind of legal.  Are my shocks completely legal, are my spindles legal, are my trans, flywheels, clutch, diff, bushings, etc.......Fair.    This is like cheating on the wife.  Is it OK so long as I don't get caught ?  Not for me.

 

I love SM racing.  I know there are better cars and drivers and I am ok with that (to a point).  Danny Steyn for example. I have watched him get better and better as a driver.  This might be my naivety at work, but let us all remember we are a CLUB of AMATEUR (CLUB) racers racing a SPEC class.  Unless you really buy into these conditions perhaps PRO racing should be your endeavor.  

 

Last but not least, thank you Will for having the guts and fortitude to help protect the class you love.

 

David Bailey

SM # 31  SEDIV

[LarryKing]

Or - all of the engine builders could build exactly to OEM spec - no tricks, no double secret goodies.

 

 

 

Bwaaaaaaaaaa haaaaa haaaaa.

https://www.youtube....h?v=IapQJC6e9Ms

[Todd Green]

Look at the end of the day this is all that matters....how many pages was the previous longest topic, this has got to be crushing that!

 
Actually no.  The longest thread (in this sub forum) is 31 pages from 2011.  Coincidentally, it starts out with, "Despite the Runoffs Drama..."
 
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana