373 replies to this topic

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

Butch?

I think he is talking about me Kuch he just likes to call me Butch !

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

I'm new in the SM group and I run an NA 1.8 so I don't have a dog in this fight but I like the idea of everybody being equal.
 
My question is what exactly does SCCA/NASA need to see, as far as data goes, to make any major rule changes outside of weight/plates? Dyno numbers, race results with experimental parts, traqmate/datalogger data?
 
I keep reading that no decisions will be made without data, but what criteria does the data need to meet in order to be a valid report card. This is also good information should anybody else want to submit for a rule change and not want to have wasted efforts.

First let me say welcome to the party !

In my opinion all they have to do is look at all the race results and there is the answer.
They need to see it on paper,documented written proof not actual real life stuff ! lol !!!

[Diller]

First let me say welcome to the party !

In my opinion all they have to do is look at all the race results and there is the answer.
They need to see it on paper,documented written proof not actual real life stuff ! lol !!!

 

 

So we may have a "chicken and the egg" story going on. Lets just send out a bunch of cheater 1.6s and see what happens

[Brandon]

You laugh but I believe that's what they've done with v3 of the SRFs.  

They were allowed to participate in some of the Majors in 2014 to evaluate performance numbers though there were no v3's invited to the Runoffs.

[pat slattery]

The last weight change the 1.6 got about 20 0r 25 lbs added 

[Jason J Ball]

With those changes the 99 could run with no plate and might still be at a disadvantage. You basically asked for a mild 1.6 STL build.

So whats wrong with that? You guys have been having all of the fun at the front. Afraid of the competition? 

 

But seriously, how much of a disadvantage? Is it equal to our current disadvantage? If we run the NB's without restriction and a small restriction in the 1.6 will I be able to pass an NB that just skunked me in the last corner? How do we get to the point where there are several (couple dozen) 1.6L's like the Buras car. How do we make that car easily repeatable like a NB?

[Ken SM94]

9.9:1 compression and shave the weight off the flywheel. Easy to test, repeatable and cheap.

[SaulSpeedwell]

Saul what's your proposal for cool air inlet on the 1.6

"Guessing" on aero is risky, but all the Miata stock airboxes get their "cold high pressure air" from the left front wheelhouse.  The inner fender liners of the 99-05 are the most highly engineered, with louvers that let high pressure air from the front of the LF tire up into the inlet area.  THAT I actually tested.

 

So, my thought is allowing the existing straight intakes to be "fenced in" from the rest of the engine bay, sealed against the hood with weather stripping and then just let the cold air from the wheelhouse flow in.  There is already a passage from the wheelhouse into the stock airbox area, but at 100MPH with all our re-engineered radiator sealing and removed fender liners, who knows what way the air is flowing anymore.  The idea would be to funnel and trap only outside "cold" air into a fenced in "room" built around the straight intake's filter.

 

I would be DIY-able for those so inclined, and of course someone like Pa Clements (father of my favorite Texan) could fold them up and spit them out for people to just bolt on.

 

Type "Miata CAI" into Google Images and you'll see some ideas of what I'm talking about.

 

"Sort of" like this, but imagine it done in a way that works with today's existing intakes:

[Johnny D]

How about this guy ?
I've also seen just a screen. Cheap
http://www.good-win-...rt/30-1051.html 
 
Replace their broken turn signal and tattered tape that people have already ?

Or with the miss aligned head light cover ?? 

Seems like a lot have this issue.
J~

[Tom 81]

1. Defeat the variable intake system on the 99-05.  If I recall correctly this could eliminate the lower end torque advantage for the 1.8L and brings the torque numbers in line with the 1.6L. I realize no one in a 99-05 will want this, but maybe we trade this for the restrictor plate.  Don't know but it needs to be considered and tested.  Cost is minimal at best to the competitor.

Does anyone have a really good reason not to do this? Combined with the CAI and maybe flywheel on the 1.6, this would allow the 99-05 cars to drop weight, reducing their tire and bearing wear. That seems like a fair trade to me.

[jguthrie]

+1 for SaulSpeedwell

[Bench Racer]

+1 for SaulSpeedwell

For the turbo or the CIA.

 

We could also eliminate the air intake restrictor of the 1.6. The one pictured eliminates the restrictor. And how about a smooth alum tube to make it all look good.

 

[SaulSpeedwell]

A problem I see here standing on the sideline is the 1.6 Owners are still "brainstorming" theoretical and anecdotal solutions and not getting behind ONE solution.  You guys have to agree with each other before you can expect anyone else to take it seriously?  Do some math, do some testing, but random "ideas" are holding you back from your goal?

 

RX-7 AFMs and new intakes, plus dyno tuning?  Anyone actually tried that?  Fact:  An "untuned" RX-7 AFM flows less than a "tuned" Miata AFM.  I'm serious. 

 

Check with your engine builder on the 9.9 CR - my base of knowledge on this is almost getting tossed from the 2007 NASA Champs because my 9.4 CR 1.6 motor had to have the pistons flycut to keep from hitting the head, and thus they were "shorter" than stock.  That was supposedly because my "crate" head had large-ish combustion chambers.  The head was NOT cut, which was why the CCs were large - we had "peach" heads and we wanted to use them as long as possible, which meant cutting the minimum from them to avoid falling outside FSM spec, versus cutting the blocks, which (I believe?) had no FSM spec.  With two different engine builders, I know we had to pair heads and blocks carefully just to get to 9.4 without flunking the piston specs.  If I'm FOS on this, someone with facts please chime in!  Engine builders, this is your chance to help! 

 

I'm not trying to sound like or be a jerk here ... I'd LOVE to see a 1.6 win a Runoffs again!

[SaulSpeedwell]

How about this guy ?
I've also seen just a screen. Cheap
http://www.good-win-...rt/30-1051.html 
 
Replace their broken turn signal and tattered tape that people have already ?

Or with the miss aligned head light cover ?? 

Seems like a lot have this issue.
J~

 

It looks cool and all, but does it actually have higher pressure than the wheelhouse where Mazda continued to pull cold air from up through 2005?  Or is it actually LOW pressure right there, a few inches above the leading edge of the nose and a couple feet to the left of the leading edge center of pressure?  And you have to fence it in and route it to the inlet of everyone's straight intake, anyway?  We already KNOW the 99+ is extremely efficient at running IAT deltas above ambient.  

 

But I'm all in favor of putting one in and testing it?   For <$100 and one test session?

[jguthrie]

Fellows...Keep it simple .

Use Saulspeedwell cold air idea to cure the heat soak .

Forget 99 suspention , the comp diff is the equalizer .

Fix the torque problem with weight . No way perfect but

doable with little $ .

Full disclosure : regional racer that runs Mido

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

Fellows...Keep it simple .
Use Saulspeedwell cold air idea to cure the heat soak .
Forget 99 suspention , the comp diff is the equalizer .
Fix the torque problem with weight . No way perfect but
doable with little $ .
Full disclosure : regional racer that runs Mido

I agree,let's start with the intake and a little less weight and go from there.

Where do I sign ?

[Ken SM94]

SaulSpeedwell, if your pistons were at risk of hitting the head it was because the top of the block was cut too much. 

 

It may be that the pistons were cut shorter (which is in no way legal) because the combustion chambers on the head were too *small* and the compression would have been too high. You would have been better off using a thicker head gasket. 

[Ken SM94]

In my opinion the "cold" air intake would do little to nothing.  if we ran by ourselves it would be one thing but running behind a couple cars on summer day, forget it.

[38bfast]

kuch less weight will not work for the larger drivers of the 1.6. Many can not make weight now.

[Ron Alan]

kuch less weight will not work for the larger drivers of the 1.6. Many can not make weight now.

Sorry...this is backwards thinking. Let the "large drivers" pick a car they can make weight in or cry amongst themselves. Weight has hurt the 1.6 IMO

Ken hit on something that I think is really important to consider. The size/weight of the Hoosier really affects the 1.6. Would allowing the 1.6 a lighter wheel(unsprung weight/rotating mass) be of any benefit?