390 replies to this topic

[Erik Hardy]

we used to have races in Memphis that would get 10-16 Sm, 17-25 at Gateway.. 25 plus at Hallett every race. Now we don't even have any races in Memphis, Gateway is 2-5 cars if that and hallett still our best race but nothing near what it was.  Total attendance is down..   Yet, when our division is basically all but dead, we appoint our area director as president of the club? It is bad enough we stayed within the old school SCCA for this position  to move the club forward. But I have no logical explanation as to why would choose the person who headed the weakest and failing division within our club?  

 

The club ABSOLUTELY needs some new direction and new ideas.. When I am still below the "average age:" at 48, we have an issue. We need to generate new members and keep them. We lose as many members as we gain yearly. Collins had some numbers and they were STAGGERING as to how many we lose yearly. 

If regional racing falls, it is the first block, majors and racing in general will be next. For the club and club racing to be successful we MUST have a healthy regional program. 

 

To give a perspective, I'm relatively young (25) by SCCA standards and so far I've attended driver school and 3 regional races. Before getting involved in the sport, I did a lot of research on the class, competition, regulations, organizations, costs and how well I thought it would fit what I'm looking for.

 

Initially, I was blown away by the internet man-drama that was happening. Mind you, I was doing my research last fall where the runoffs debacle was occurring. All winter long all these parity discussions were happening, people pointing fingers at others for cheating, the sky was falling I was sure of it. I couldn't help but look out the window, ask myself what am I getting into and just hoping the snow would finally melt.

 

While I was fortunate to purchase an NA, those around me begun asking questions, how are you going to keep up with the 99's, your car isn't competitive, etc. Before I showed up to an event, I thought every 99' would just motor around me every straight away, I wouldn't stand a chance. You have to spend (?)XX,000 to keep up with the top prep cars! I just didn't want to believe all this non sense.

 

Back in May, I raced for the first time and wouldn't you know it the sky wasn't falling. Nobody was pointing fingers, it was actually a place I wanted to be, lots of really cool people! I got beat by those that I deserved to get beat by; it wasn't remotely close to a parity problem. It was due to a lack of skill and preparation! Fortunately, things have only gotten better the more races I go to.

 

My recommendation for those who post on here often that are concerned about parity and club #'s. Forgo the negative image that gets portrayed online. Before you start pointing fingers and/or accusing the workers of not being held to the highest standard, think about the consequences, it can't help SCCA's image or your own. All the BS on this board was nearly a no-go for me for racing in spec miata and may be others current ideology as well.

 

I've come to realize that the parity debates are so minimal; yet so difficult to improve because of how close things already are, which are very track dependent! Please don't blow this parity debate out of the water, its much closer than every other class I've witnessed so far. I've done my own acceleration calculations and simulations to understand the difference between 3-10hp down a straight away. My flamesuit recommendation is drop the weight even further on the 1.6; remove the turn signal for power degradation over time, pull the plate on the NA 1.8, keep the 99/vvt the same, and lets go racing and enjoy more battles with some friends

 

-Erik

[Cnj]

An often strange thread just got stranger with Dewhurst giving us insight to his peeing regimen in inclement weather

On seperate classes:

1. Please don't. I like racing with my 1.6 friends.
2. There are not many left in the SW Div. So back to point one.
3. Give them overbore and give me 10 pounds if you want. This will let the three fast 1.6 drivers in the region whip on me with more conviction. Is OK. Is simple.

On majors/regionals participation (or whatever names you give them):

1. In the SW pretty much most who race in the "majors" in their area also race in "regionals" in their area so this idea that there are separate groups (thus allowing lower levels of prep for "regionals") is largely not relevant here. If you want to be at the front in any race you had better bring game.
2. SCCA SM participation is dropping slowly, but not with terrible speed. SCCA is clearly getting its butt kicked by NASA in the last 2-3 years in the SW. I race NASA infrequently, but when I do, it's the user friendly choice. If it were not for (a) the pain of having 2 types of tires (b ) my belief that the slightly better drivers still go to SCCA - and I obviously like getting my butt kicked, I would swap to NASA. I may swap anyway.

On technology (where do I start?):

1. Registration is better than it used to be, but not by much. With the exception of when Sidney is running it (what is she doing?) it's slow as molasses. Really nice people, but slooooow. This drives me nuts because it's not hard to make it better. Paper files should not exist. Tablets are cheap and simple user friendly wi-if networks easy to set up if the infrastructure does not exist.
2. Tech/rules are way behind the times. The idea that one needs to memorize the GCR and follow monthly updates in a linear fashion would be laughed out of the tech industry. In a world with context rich, intelligent, visually intensive databases, the best we are able to do in club racing is use searchable written PDF's. No wonder there is confusion about rules. Sigh.
3. Engagement is low. Video streaming via cell (or wi-fi if a DAS system is present) has been available for a couple of years to post real time in car video and data to the web. However as I understand it, this is not legal (racing advantage if a coach is providing real time feedback). We need to think past this to the broader picture of viewer interest beyond purely the drivers. Place a large video monitor with real time race results on pit wall (or anywhere you can get race support team members to congregate) and encourage some fun competitive trash talk. Tie in a wireless camera or two. Put up a Twitter wall (might need some moderating software to keep it clean....)
4. Reporting is slow. We all watch race monitor (or similar) to figure out where we are in quali and then wait 30-60 minutes for the official results to post in paper form. This is nuts. The system should be one and the same with officials able to put out their final within minutes. The lag is not race officials making their decision, it's getting that decision down to the results room, get it printed and get in stacked nicely in a paper box. Talk about volunteer intensive. I have waited often when the printer ran out of paper, would not print or the person who knew how to make it work was at lunch. Aargh.
5. Communication should be digital. If I had to write a protest or defend against one at my next race I would be lost. This should be available via a web portal with intelligent (context sensitive) guidance and all the rules/procedures. Instead it feels like a coming of age gauntlet which is totally biased to those who know the system. If the race officials need to send out a message to all or some participants they should be able to do so digitally via at least texts. Software for this has been around for years. Instead messages are spread in mysterious fashion with apocryphal results.
6. Contract to get better (or at least healthier) food options at the track. I'm not at the track to save money - I don't mind spending good money to get a decent meal. Yeah, this is not technical, but I just wanted it in.

Ok. I'm off my soap box. I really do greatly appreciate the tremendous efforts of the volunteers in the SCCA and I don't mean to harry them at all, I simply hope to see us move into the future with greater participation.

CNJ

[38bfast]

Eric your the real deal. The Internet is great and horrible at the same time. But as you have been part of at the track we have a great time. Good clean racing during the day and great fun bench racing in the evening. Everyone willing to share and help. Listing to your competitors smack taking sitting by the fire having a beverage. Times are good. Oh and by the way anyone thinking that Eric is a back of the pack rookie would be very mistaken. This guy can wheel a car. He know what's it like to be in the lead pack.

[Todd Green]

Todd I know that you wrote this tongue in cheek, but for those that miss the joke, the lap/time speed differentials between SM and SM2/SSM are tiny,and do not the cause of scenarios Todd alludes to above

Actually that wasn't tongue-n-cheek.  What you are saying is my point.  If out of class racing with different brand cars is bad, it is going to be even worse when the grid looks like NB, NA, NB, SSM, NA, SSM, SM2, NB, NB, NA, NB, etc. etc. and they are all running similar lap times/speeds, but aren't in the same class.  (E.g. in my grid, the 2nd SSM car would come in complaining about the NA car that was "racing him hard" despite being out of class thereby letting the other SSM car pull away.)  Of course the NA car is racing hard because he's trying to catch the other NA car two spots up.  Now you can nicely try to tell the SSM driver that dealing with out of class traffic is part of racing, but what good is that if they get fed up because they are not having fun and stop racing?

 

IMO splitting up the class is not the answer.

[Todd Green]

Exactly! On a Saturday with NASA, assuming that you already have your annual, you will have driven the first practice session and qualifying before you are required to see an official ( drivers meeting is the first mandatory interaction if registered on-line). At least this is the way it is with Socal. I'd bet it is similar across the country.

Our region (NASA) is similar, but you have to see an official first thing of the weekend to get a wristband and sticker for your windshield so that pit out knows you should be let out on track (and the wristband gets you in the gate).  How are you guys doing that?

[Todd Green]

now attach stuff to the radiator (by rule any radiator)

 

The rules also say you cannot have a tortured interpretation of them.  How long do you think the "any radiator" rule will stay if you start doing major air ducting/blocking with it?  I'll tell you, just about as long as the "any muffler" rule allowed Gorilla to make a flat plate bottom at the rear of the car.

[Bench Racer]

The rules also say you cannot have a tortured interpretation of them.  How long do you think the "any radiator" rule will stay if you start doing major air ducting/blocking with it?  I'll tell you, just about as long as the "any muffler" rule allowed Gorilla to make a flat plate bottom at the rear of the car.

First question to you, is it legal today.

 

Second question to you, how long has the MazdaSpeed blocking plate between the radiator and the front hood opening been legal. Fair is fair, correct.

 

Third comment, if it a later date is deemed to be illegal, maybe the 1.6er's need to operate like the 99 plus folks and get this deemed legal same as the 99 plus folks did. 

 

Had to re-read your profile, a 1.6re busting a 1.6er, ya don't believe it's enough the 99 plus bust the 1.6er's. Why not be pro 1.6 and support efforts to increase 1.6 power?

[Johnny D]

On technology (where do I start?):

1. Registration is better than it used to be, but not by much. With the exception of when Sidney is running it (what is she doing?) it's slow as molasses. Really nice people, but slooooow. This drives me nuts because it's not hard to make it better. Paper files should not exist. Tablets are cheap and simple user friendly wi-if networks easy to set up if the infrastructure does not exist.
2. Tech/rules are way behind the times. The idea that one needs to memorize the GCR and follow monthly updates in a linear fashion would be laughed out of the tech industry. In a world with context rich, intelligent, visually intensive databases, the best we are able to do in club racing is use searchable written PDF's. No wonder there is confusion about rules. Sigh.
3. Engagement is low. Video streaming via cell (or wi-fi if a DAS system is present) has been available for a couple of years to post real time in car video and data to the web. However as I understand it, this is not legal (racing advantage if a coach is providing real time feedback). We need to think past this to the broader picture of viewer interest beyond purely the drivers. Place a large video monitor with real time race results on pit wall (or anywhere you can get race support team members to congregate) and encourage some fun competitive trash talk. Tie in a wireless camera or two. Put up a Twitter wall (might need some moderating software to keep it clean....)
4. Reporting is slow. We all watch race monitor (or similar) to figure out where we are in quali and then wait 30-60 minutes for the official results to post in paper form. This is nuts. The system should be one and the same with officials able to put out their final within minutes. The lag is not race officials making their decision, it's getting that decision down to the results room, get it printed and get in stacked nicely in a paper box. Talk about volunteer intensive. I have waited often when the printer ran out of paper, would not print or the person who knew how to make it work was at lunch. Aargh.
5. Communication should be digital. If I had to write a protest or defend against one at my next race I would be lost. This should be available via a web portal with intelligent (context sensitive) guidance and all the rules/procedures. Instead it feels like a coming of age gauntlet which is totally biased to those who know the system. If the race officials need to send out a message to all or some participants they should be able to do so digitally via at least texts. Software for this has been around for years. Instead messages are spread in mysterious fashion with apocryphal results.
6. Contract to get better (or at least healthier) food options at the track. I'm not at the track to save money - I don't mind spending good money to get a decent meal. Yeah, this is not technical, but I just wanted it in.

Ok. I'm off my soap box. I really do greatly appreciate the tremendous efforts of the volunteers in the SCCA and I don't mean to harry them at all, I simply hope to see us move into the future with greater participation.

CNJ

Are we good on this subject or do we need a new thread ?
J~

[Tom Hampton]

Are we good on this subject or do we need a new thread ?
J~

Why start now?  This topic has had some many twists and turns (some of them by you and yours-truly), it hardly seems worth the trouble to split it apart 19 pages in. 

[Tom Hampton]

Our region (NASA) is similar, but you have to see an official first thing of the weekend to get a wristband and sticker for your windshield so that pit out knows you should be let out on track (and the wristband gets you in the gate).  How are you guys doing that?

Yes, we get wrist bands as we enter the gate---sign the waiver, get a wristband...all done while still in the car driving through the gate. 

 

Extra car stickers are only used on test-day, which is usually put on by the track (not NASA). 

 

I think the HPDE folks get stickers for sat/sunday, but for W2W our 2015 tech sticker works for track access during the weekend.  I can't imagine someone trying to (or getting away with) going on track without registering first (or VERY soon after). 

[Tom Sager]

Seems to me that it would be a good idea to send out a survey and ask 1.6 owners what they want.  Do they want more torque and more weight or not?  What are they willing to spend?  Separate class?  A survey might generate a lot more input than the fastrack announcement.  Wouldn't be tough for SCCA to launch a survey and probably the same can be said for NASA.  

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Easy to launch a survey and whole lot harder to get people to responds and harder to get the cross section. You are looking for to respond...

We need comprehensive testing in order to make am informed change or a split of class etc.

[Johnny D]

We haven't done here a poll yet, have we?

 

J~

[Tom Sager]

Easy to launch a survey and whole lot harder to get people to responds and harder to get the cross section. You are looking for to respond...

We need comprehensive testing in order to make am informed change or a split of class etc.

Yeah not everyone will respond but a poll was sent out regarding SM running under the lights at Daytona.  That probably got quite a number of responses and certainly more than the fastrack "WDYT".  A similar response might be very helpful.  

[Todd Green]

I think the HPDE folks get stickers for sat/sunday, but for W2W our 2015 tech sticker works for track access during the weekend.  I can't imagine someone trying to (or getting away with) going on track without registering first (or VERY soon after). 

 

Oh people have tried it in our region.  It isn't called the wild west for nothing. Obviously HPDE/TT doesn't try to go out in the W2W group(s), but inventive racers have tried to get some extra track time in the TT group.  Having different colored stickers for each session provides a quick visual check. Anyway I was just wondering if any regions mailed out the wrist bands as soon as they got the electronic registration which would make lines even shorter.  (Though we generally have a pre-reg and on-site reg lines and if you pre-reg'd there is virtually no wait.)
 

[Todd Green]

First question to you, is it legal today.

 

Second question to you, how long has the MazdaSpeed blocking plate between the radiator and the front hood opening been legal. Fair is fair, correct.

 

Third comment, if it a later date is deemed to be illegal, maybe the 1.6er's need to operate like the 99 plus folks and get this deemed legal same as the 99 plus folks did. 

 

Had to re-read your profile, a 1.6re busting a 1.6er, ya don't believe it's enough the 99 plus bust the 1.6er's. Why not be pro 1.6 and support efforts to increase 1.6 power?

1) I'd have to see pics to decide if it is "legal" (and it'd have to pass tech/protest to really know since my opinion doesn't matter)

2) The rules state, "Any openings created by fitting an alternate radiator must be blocked to prevent air from entering the engine compartment."  They also state, "No ducting or baffling of air to the air filter is
permitted."

3) So, the odds of adding metal to a radiator to direct cool air to the filter isn't legal now, even though radiators are "free".

4) Why should I support an effort that probably isn't legal and has a small chance of being made legal?  I do like your idea of wrapping the entire intake track (if it does help).  Cheap, simple, easy rule change.  Frankenstein radiators are not.  As soon as they are truly "free", I'm flat bottoming my car and just making sure it is attached to the radiator.   And as I've posted before, I don't think it is a good idea to upset the apple cart, despite being a 1.6er.  There are a few people on the planet who try to think about the bigger picture and not just themselves.  Now if there is some way to give the 1.6 a boost without making it the car to have, by all means, go for it.  But as you've seen by pages and pages of posts, that seems easier said than done.

[Bench Racer]

1) I'd have to see pics to decide if it is "legal" (and it'd have to pass tech/protest to really know since my opinion doesn't matter)

2) The rules state, "Any openings created by fitting an alternate radiator must be blocked to prevent air from entering the engine compartment."  They also state, "No ducting or baffling of air to the air filter is
permitted."

3) So, the odds of adding metal to a radiator to direct cool air to the filter isn't legal now, even though radiators are "free".

4) Why should I support an effort that probably isn't legal and has a small chance of being made legal?  I do like your idea of wrapping the entire intake track (if it does help).  Cheap, simple, easy rule change.  Frankenstein radiators are not.  As soon as they are truly "free", I'm flat bottoming my car and just making sure it is attached to the radiator.   And as I've posted before, I don't think it is a good idea to upset the apple cart, despite being a 1.6er.  There are a few people on the planet who try to think about the bigger picture and not just themselves.  Now if there is some way to give the 1.6 a boost without making it the car to have, by all means, go for it.  But as you've seen by pages and pages of posts, that seems easier said than done.

Your point 1., as soon as my people send Tom Hampton receives picture taken this past weekend you and others may make your legality decision.

 

Your point 2, I didn't create any openings............... I believe my closing 90% (guess) of the natural opening between the radiator and hood would not be considered baffling or ducting. First check the SCCA glossary definition of baffling and ducting. Second, the MazdaSpeed plastic block off plate that fits between the radiator and the hood opening has a ready knockout hole. Knock it out and presto, air to the filter side of engine bay, same as my deal. Haven't viewed any comments from you about said block off plate. There's another much more creative guy than me swiping someone else's computer files and generating a air intake that passes over the top of the radiator and in front of the radiator. Haven't viewed your comments about that deal and that deal will be expensive. The more than test and DO SOMETHING he better chance of something flying with the SCCA SMAC.

 

Your point 3, neat time at the track maybe I'll protest my cool air intake to which is defendable.

 

Your point 4, I'm not asking you to support my cool air intake, I'm asking you as one of the regular 1.6 posters to support the NA 1.6 car along with potential improvements to the 1.6. If your 1.6 can race heads up with the 99 plus cars your a super star driver (pro driver) or the 99 plus cars are not fully prepped <(Learned from Drago). Did you notice for the 1014 Runoffs most of the 1.6 cars were parked and the left coasters had 99 plus cars at the ready. Pretty easy to figure that out, eh.

 

How about you go run Drago up the flag pole, he/Buras have a 1.6 cool air intake. Sorry Jim, you also need some heat.   But had I keep my mouth shut like you I'd have no need to defend my cool air intake. Many racers have looked under my hood and the only comment is, why don't you take those under hood 90* plastic pieces off so more ambient air can flow to the filter. Duh, they never notice the radiator to hood block off deal. Fanning the flames..............................

 

Now I'm off to Pegasus to procure some gold reflective tape to wrap my OEM air intake tube and that Todd is about as illegal as it can get, bright shinny reflective gold color. Testing needs to be completed by someone and with all the BS about 1.6er's doing nothing to potentially improve torque I'm in and doing something. Some 1.6er's don't care if there's light at the end of the tunnel, I do. If the 1.6 gets a bone or two for my 2 cents the bones will get implemented and more 1.6's will be on track. And if Drago drags a 1.6 out of the barn, you know the bone is good.

 

 

[Bench Racer]

Sorry, pc went on vacation.
 

[Bench Racer]

Sorry, pc went on vacation.
 

[38bfast]

Bench if Drago drags a 1.6 bone out of the shop it will be because it is so much better tasting. Not just the same bone he has been chewing on for years. But that great taste will come with a much higher price tag. The taste has to be fantastic to justify the added cost. 

 

Then again Jim is also on a diet.