411 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

Understand your frustration at the perceived conflict of interest, I have had similar thoughts from time to time, I inherently distrust rules makers.

However, do two wrongs make this right?

Rules makers that were smart and wanted to exploit their position would advocate COTY so they could keep right on selling.. Not advocating rules stability and common sense. All these people could build any version and sell it, so the rules are not the issue there. Some are just a little more suspicious and hard headed than others

[Jim Drago]

Ok I hope this works because this is the first time I posted a video.
 
This is a top level prepped 99 and top level driver vs my 91 NA garage built car that I built.
 
Now some of you might know who built the car and some of you might know who the driver is but PLEASE DO NOT SAY OR USE any names as i just put this video up for opinions only.
 
http://youtu.be/kOLoMec6XIg
 
Now Im up for everyones opinion on what they think ?
 
1] is there a parity issue
2] driver issue
3] level of prep [set up] issue
4] opinions ?
 
Sorry for the poor video quality and you can fast forward to when he gets around me. The main place is out of turn 13,this could be a second or third gear turn.
 
Just curious of what you guys think,dont worry your not going to hurt my feelings so flame away !

I didnt watch.. but arguable you are comparing to the fastest guy at Nelson, the results owuld hae been teh same regardless of the version car IMO.. I will watch later though

[38bfast]

Kuch that was long ago and a lot has changed from then to now. The HP that car was making was down 3-4 from today's standards. I know this cause I did the prep on that car when it was sold. Also I belive that's when we were still on toyos.

I also rember when we shared track time. You were down on power back then. I do rember you could wheel a car but felt that car prep was holding you back.


Although great job keeping up.

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

I didnt watch.. but arguable you are comparing to the fastest guy at Nelson, the results owuld hae been teh same regardless of the version car IMO.. I will watch later though

Jim watch the beginning and then fast forward to the 12 min. And watch from there.

Isn't that what we are supposed to do,compare to the fastest car and driver and then see what the diff is ?

This was a National race and I think him and I were running 1:17.200 and the 3rd place car was running 1:19 I think we had them covered by more then half a lap.

To be honest Jim I'm just looking for advise, is it me the car or both ?

Let me rephrase the question, how much could I benefit from upgrading from my NA car to a top level prepped NB car ?

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

Kuch that was long ago and a lot has changed from then to now. The HP that car was making was down 3-4 from today's standards. I know this cause I did the prep on that car when it was sold. Also I belive that's when we were still on toyos.
I also rember when we shared track time. You were down on power back then. I do rember you could wheel a car but felt that car prep was holding you back.
Although great job keeping up.

My car only had 115hp and 102 ft of TQ at that time .

[38bfast]

Just for reference there was a 1.6 at Mid O majors last year with best finish of 9th. 20 seconds off the leed car. I would classify the car as good but not great. The driver although seasoned in open wheel new to SM. The owner of the car is happy with the 1.6 and does not want to spend the money on a new car.

[Ron Alan]

Hi Ron.... My response is the same today as it was last time you asked me about REM. It is up to you to determine the legality for the part and class that you are running your car in. It's completely obvious and easy to check, so it doesn't need any special attention just someone to take the time to look. VVT computers is a completely different story based on the security system. But you already knew this.......

Sorry...I think it usually takes 3 times before I remember I already asked a question...sucks getting old

And Jim...with regard to ECU's I guess you can't believe everything you read on the Internet
It's been since we first started but I remember reading(Miata.net?) about computer guys who had a difficult time manipulating the early mapping? Yes...I have no experience or real knowledge. I would imagine an ECU inside is a big circuit board? I guess certain things can just be soldered in? But I was under the impression with OBDII port things can be changed? It would be cool if someone here can enlighten us obvious uninformed!

[Steve Scheifler]

I agree that we need some well prepared 1.6s out there. OK pro shops, who can make me a deal on a "top prep" 1.6 engine? For years now all the focus has been on the later cars, can anyone even supply a truly competative 1.6 anymore? If so, I'm intersested in buying one. PM or email me at ss510 at att dot net and let's talk.

[FTodaro]

Just for reference there was a 1.6 at Mid O majors last year with best finish of 9th. 20 seconds off the leed car. I would classify the car as good but not great. The driver although seasoned in open wheel new to SM. The owner of the car is happy with the 1.6 and does not want to spend the money on a new car.

While at the same time in 2014 the track record for the track was held by a local 1.6

 

          Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course                                   SCCA Club Racing Track Records (non-Runoffs)                 2.258 Mile PRO Course       National Classes               Class Time MPH Date Driver Hometown Make/Model Full Class Name   FA 1:22.843 98.12 9/10/2006 NORMAN FOX Malvern, OH Ralt RT-41 Formula Atlantic   FB 1:22.536 98.49 10/12/2008 JUSTIN PRITCHARD Granville, OH Piper DF-5 Formula 1000   FC 1:25.060 95.57 8/31/2014 Robert Allaer Lithia, FL Van Dieman RF02 Formula Continental   FE 1:27.462 92.94 9/10/2006 Corey Dalenberg Bellville,OH Van Dieman FSCCA Formula Enterprises   FM 1:29.173 91.16 9/7/2008 STEVE JOHNCOCK Bellvue, MI Formula Mazda Formula Mazda   F5 1:31.241 89.09 9/5/2010 David Lapham Irvington, NY Invader QRE Formula 500   FF 1:31.369 88.97 9/10/2006 MICHAEL KOLTHOFF Liberty Township, OH Swift DB-6 Formula F   FV 1:41.104 80.40 10/12/2008 DOUG SONTAG Georgetown, KY Rhino DS-3 Formula Vee   GT1 1:30.894 89.43 9/6/2009 RANDY WALKER Lexington, KY Chevy Monte Carlo Grand Touring 1   GT2 1:32.024 88.33 10/9/2011 Michael Muren Aurora, OH Porsche 944S  Grand Touring 2   GT3 1:35.117 85.46 9/5/2010 Paul Young Commerce Twp., MI Ford Probe Grand Touring 3   GTL 1:39.957 81.32 9/6/2009 MARK CONNOLLY South Park, PA Honda CRX Grand Touring Lite   P1             Prototype 1   P2             Prototype 2   SRF 1:38.279 82.71 10/11/2009 DAVID SCHACHT Noblesville, IN Spec Racer Ford Spec Racer Ford   EP 1:37.023 83.78 10/10/2010 Bob Doernberg Akron,OH Caterham 7 America E Production   FP 1:38.198 82.78 10/11/2009 JOHN WALKER Kalamazoo, MI Lotus Super 7 F Production   HP 1:44.238 77.98 10/12/2008 BARRY WILLS Hilliard, OH VW GTI H Production   AS 1:36.341 84.38 10/9/2011 Philip Smith New Albany, OH Chevrolet Camaro American Sedan   SM 1:42.745 79.12 8/11/2013 Brian Murdick Columbus, OH Mazda Miata Spec Miata

[FTodaro]

And before that since 2008 the track record was held by bennett since 2008 in a 1.6 i belive, Mark can confirm

 

  STL 1:40.889 85.64 6/3/2012 Raymond Huffmaster Clarkston,MI Mazda RX-8 Super Touring Lite   1:56.022   SM 1:44.472 82.70 8/10/2008 Mark Bennett Lagrange,OH Mazda Miata Spec Miata   2:00.143

[James York]

Mike believe it or not I turned a faster lap going through T13 in 3rd gear. The main reason is it took longer for me to find 3rd gear mid way through the corner. It took awhile to get it right but when I figured it out it was faster.

Kuch,

Great driving.

While you might be faster going through that corner in third, it does not necessarily mean you couldn't be faster in 2nd driven correctly. I am sometime personally faster through a corner in a higher gear because I might tend to over slow the car in the better suited lower gear. I think you are losing ground every lap to Mark here due to the gear choice.

Looks like you had a good race.

[Steve Scheifler]

Those MidO track records are impressive but pretty much irrelevant in terms of parity. One stellar lap under ideal conditions years ago when rules were considered guidelines, tires were different, weights were different, maybe had a draft or a tail wind, etc., etc. And why the huge difference between the two? looking at a lot more data may still indicate that the 1.6 is fine at that track, but these alone are near meaningless.

[pat slattery]

Bennett sold his 1.6 and went to a 99 cause he believed the 1.6 could not win there against the 99 car.  I remember him posting that.

[Steve Scheifler]

As I recall, along with a video clip of a '99 (Lamb?) gaining on him even after going well off into the dirt.

[FTodaro]

Those MidO track records are impressive but pretty much irrelevant in terms of parity. One stellar lap under ideal conditions years ago when rules were considered guidelines, tires were different, weights were different, maybe had a draft or a tail wind, etc., etc. And why the huge difference between the two? looking at a lot more data may still indicate that the 1.6 is fine at that track, but these alone are near meaningless.

 

 

Bennett sold his 1.6 and went to a 99 cause he believed the 1.6 could not win there against the 99 car.  I remember him posting that.

 

Why is it when i post a data point that its irrelevant as to parity. Murdick's record was from 8/11/13 to 10/2/14 less that a year ago.

 

My point is in 2014 until Oct the track record was held by a 1.6 and as of now that drivers is .200 off the current lap record.

and it is relevant if your telling me that the car is not competitive and that its a disadvantage.

 

I understand its at a disadvantage at other tracks, just not mine.

 

Yes Todd lamb Won that race but he did not do it reading a magazine and talking on his cell phone. it was a COMPETITIVE race.

 

Pat, last year at the majors your son was competitive in his car, top 5 until later in the race, not sure if it was tires or heat that kicked in.  The level of prep in your car i do not know, you do.

 

While we are all throwing out opinions, mine is from my windshield the 1.6 is a contender at my track. That is all i am saying. I felt it necessary to rebut Ralph's post about a p 20 place car.

 

After they are done adding weight and plate to the 99+ and giving help to the 1.6 is suspect it will be even better.

 

One more data point

 

Great Lakes divisional champion

2014 Mike Novak VVT

2013 Brian Murdick 1.6

2012 John Guthrie 1.6

2011 and many more years before that Rick Deerwester 1.6

 

I just love numbers.

[LarryKing]

Division championships reward high finishing position and they reward attendance.

 

Frank, what brand of tire was Murdick (and you) running when he (and you) set Mid-O track records?

[Craig Berry]

Lamb will look like he has 5hp on most, even when he is 5 down

[Bench Racer]

Looking at the Mid Ohio 1.6 drivers from 2011 through 2013 a question pops up that seems is not being talked about. How equal at Mid Ohio are the 99 plus drivers to the 3, 1.6 drivers listed???

[FTodaro]

Division championships reward high finishing position and they reward attendance.

 

Frank, what brand of tire was Murdick (and you) running when he (and you) set Mid-O track records?

SM-7

 

Yes i have the current Club course record, but understand on any given  weekend any of the drivers mentions above including Guthrie can win and do.

 

Ralph will tell you that before Hillie's 1.6 was taking out in the majors two year ago now, he had more wins that any other one driver i know of between SCCA and NASA at our track.

 

My Rant is limited to pointing out that this is track and driver dependent. That is why i am not objecting to but not exited about seeing the 1.6 get a big boost, as they already Kick ass in my venue.

[pat slattery]

OK Frank

 

2014 majors winner

 

Voytek Burdzy

 

 

2013 National winner

 

Eric Stearns

 

2012  National winner

 

David Bednarz

 

I like numbers also