147 replies to this topic

[Steve Scheifler]

I always liked our YMTC topics, especially when the drivers have very different opinions of events, though I'd rather not be one of the drivers involved.  But, stuff happens, so here's a new one from this weekend. No point being coy, I have the video because I'm in the camera car so of course I have already formed an opinion. Now it's your turn.  I'll provide what I think is relevant background.

 

This is the second 20 minute practice session on the Friday test day.  Last I heard, no $5 trophies being handed out.  It is our first time at Road Atlanta so we're scrubbing in some new tires while we learn the flow of the track.  As you can see, coming down the front straight I rapidly approach a red Miata which is way off the pace so I slow enough to deal with any unexpected moves if he isn't watching his mirrors and pick a safe point to go around him with no drama.  Meanwhile another car from way back is now closing on me but as I enter the next corner I see he is still well back and passing the red car.  Next thing I know, I'm headed for the wall.

 

As it happens, we were auditioning multiple data & video options this weekend so I had four cameras in the car.  The video linked below are the best two views, once each in real time and then again in slow-mo. Watch them a few times, consider the timing and circumstances, and pretend you are the race steward, then You Make The Call.

 

http://www.specmiata...lCrashComb2.mp4

 

BTW, great race Saturday between Todd Lamb and Jonathan Czarny.  Bumper to bumper until about the second to last lap when Todd took and held the lead for the win.  We missed the race today but I see Todd won another close one.  I'm not familiar with Jonathan but it appeared that he really made Todd earn it.

[Steve Scheifler]

I like hi-res, but for those with less bandwidth here is a more compact version.

 

http://www.specmiata...rashComb2LR.mp4

[Johnny D]

I can't speak for others but a YouTube or Vimeo link would be better, since I left my MP4 player in my other suit.

J~

[Steve Scheifler]

Sorry!  I assumed pretty much any browser would play mp4s. Disk space is cheap so I mostly avoid messing with public sites.  But since it's a problem for some...

 

https://youtu.be/N1-bwOTlxpI

[Johnny D]

So I just watched it once...

it looks like he's doing a bit of a dive bomb with you on your line but closing the door slowly.

 

You driver/passenger slow mo is interesting. You keep making a turn to the right a few times, look up, I assume to check mirrors, turn to the left and get hit. (if I remember right)

but he's doing a low percentage move for the situation, not worth it/or shouldn't be done in a test session.

I guess if you were paying closer attention to your mirror you could of left a car width for him, but not really something he should assume.

I don't know the track, just my 2 cents.

You need a new driver side window wiper.

Good night.

J~

[Ron Alan]

Hmmm...it happens fast. As you go to the apex the white car has already started to overlap it looks like...oops on your part?
For a test day a dumb move on his part and he should have anticipated you not seeing the speed differential and drove 2 off or braked!

So if this was a race and the white car was a leader lapping...I would hope the lappers see him coming.

[FTodaro]

I have been to Atlanta a few times and know the track, but there are others with much more time at the track and would have a better opinion, but IMO the rules require the overtaking car do it safely and at the point of impact the pass was not completed. It  looks to me that it was contact with the left rear tire area, so IMO racing room was not given. Also you are just outside the line at that point which is because of the pass on the red car. the typical pass of a slower car there is on the outside, then you get the inside for the entry to the next turn.

 

Another bad decision by some of the drivers in our class. There is a video posted facebook from Road America this past weekend of a someone moving over making contact to try and block putting the car into the wall at the start finish. Just to much thoughtless driving.

 

Trying to pass you at that point, he had to get the lefts up on and maybe over the curb, not sure you can make that pass stick, or should want too.

[LarryKing]

I think that's called a "Georgia Lovetap"

 

Seriously, no excuse for contact on a test day.

 

PS: does your helmet fit you? It looks really high on your head.

[Tom Scheifler]

Let me emphasize, THIS WAS A TEST DAY.

[Bench Racer]

I think that's called a "Georgia Lovetap"

 

Spectated at the ARRC last year and viewed any number of these, "Georgia LoveTaps".

 

 

[JRHille]

I probably would have given more room to the guy that there was contact with, looked like you kept getting closer to the curb while he was coming through

[CruzanTom]

Steve,

 

Sorry to see your contact with the wall. I was a few cars behind you (you can see me -blue orange #44- pass in your mirror as you hit the wall) and I did not see the initial contact. Traffic was heavy and there was a lot of speed differentials on Test Day.

 

It seems as if you swung wide right off the normal line after Turn 3 and the yellow/white car tried to pass on your left and on the normal line; however, you were turning back toward the apex at the point of contact. Any contact during a Test Day sucks. I am sure the other driver wished it had not happened, too.

 

Hope to race with you again soon,

 

Tom

[Mike Collins]

I think there are two things to consider here.  

 

1. It IS the overtaking cars responsibility to make the pass cleanly.

2. The car being overtaken needs to leave "racing room".

 

They were not racing!

 

This was a test day, the faster car was obviously closing in at a greater rate of speed and had to recognize that from WAY BACK.  The faster overtaking car "should" have given more space to the cars being over taken, but in the end with the way the rules are written the slower car did not leave enough room to make the pass no matter how low percentage it was.

[Jim Drago]

I probably would have given more room to the guy that there was contact with, looked like you kept getting closer to the curb while he was coming through

I disagree.. Camera car is never even 3/4 of a car off of LS curbing. So to initiate this "pass" it appears from this video the driver has to put his lefts over the ls curb in a best case scenario.. On TEST day, sorry IMO, that was just a really bad decision. I hate to pass judgement without seeing the video from the other car, but from what I saw , it fairly conclusive. If the video Crowell car, I would love to see it.
I hate to see cars torn up at anytime, on test day is even worse. Just makes no sense whatsoever! Sorry about your car.

Were there any conversations post incident?

[Keith Andrews]

Steve,

 

That IMHO is typical of an SM test session and completely uncalled for.  Who cares if you turned toward the apex, you're trying to learn the track. 

 

I never win test day and I get a hard time for it.  I had a lengthy conversation at Road Atlanta this weekend on this topic.  I just don't see the point of having something like this happen because I want a great lap time on test day.  Sorry that happened to you, I would have been really pissed off if it happened to me.

[Kevin B]

Steve and Tom,

It was nice to meet you both this weekend.  We were your paddock neighbors in the Silver/Maroon #90 ITA Miata.  For your first time at the track on Friday in the red car during our sessions, you were getting it around there well.

 

Sorry to see how part of the weekend wrapped for you guys...

 

On an open track when we're carrying good speed up the hill and hit it right, we're pretty well into throttle before crossing the inside bumps at T3 and drift quickly over to the T4 inside curbing.  The T4 inside berm has been known to catch/save the car and then it sticks inside most of the way around.

 

That's where I expect most cars to be/go so a lot of times if we're closing fast coming up the hill, I'll look for the car ahead to drift over there and I'll breathe off, make T3 sharper, wait for him to track left and pass on the outside of T4.  Or, rarer occasion, if he's seen me and stays obviously well right, I'll stay in it.

 

If it were in a race and a lapping scenario, I'd chalk it to camera car (unfamiliar with track, granted) showing some gap and turning in later than one would expect at T4.

In test day, however, if I'm the overtaking driver, I have to expect that someone I'm closing in on might be on track for their first time like yourself and wouldn't know where the "expected" passing lanes might be.   (I don't know who else was involved so no hurt feelings intended to either of you, just my thoughts.)  

 

I'm glad to hear everyone was okay and I hope the metal mends quickly too.

 

Take care,

Kevin Bailey

[Bench Racer]

What happened to the traditional common sense thought that is spoken of in drivers school. Take the traditional line so that the passing car can make a good decision. Previous to this situation the slower red car took the traditional line and new to the track Steve passed on passengers side of red car.

[JRHille]

I can see that now, the trailing car went for a really tight gap there. I guess id like to think if I was in the camera car I would've noticed the aggressive test day move and moved over to the right. Takes two, the trailing car shouldn't have made that move in the first place

[Tom Scheifler]

Seriously, no excuse for contact on a test day.
.

I agree. Except for bump drafting.
So, who are you saying is at fault?

[Tom Sager]

Doesn't look to me like the passing car ever has enough room on the inside to make the pass but it's hard to see for sure.