147 replies to this topic

[Steve Scheifler]

Steve admitted to shifting more focus forward AFTER turn-in and not seeing him come alongside, which is not quite the same as not looking. But yea, I missed the move and that's your point. I do have doubts about the assumption that seeing him would have prevented an incident. He yanked inside very suddenly with a lot of speed differential. Had I seen that first move, then probably, but that wasn't likely since he moved out of my mirror as I turned regardless of his move. If I noticed him when he first got inside, maybe, but at that speed I needed a quick jerk and may have been tagged anyway since there wasn't nearly enough room for him. Any later than that would likely have been too late. So could I have gotten zero blame only by catching that first flash and dodging him completely, or if I saw him and moved but a little too late would I be granted absolution?

Like I said originally, tough grader.

[Johnny D]

Steve admitted to shifting more focus forward AFTER turn-in and not seeing him come alongside, which is not quite the same as not looking. But yea, I missed the move and that's your point. I do have doubts about the assumption that seeing him would have prevented an incident. He yanked inside very suddenly with a lot of speed differential. Had I seen that first move, then probably, but that wasn't likely since he moved out of my mirror as I turned regardless of his move. If I noticed him when he first got inside, maybe, but at that speed I needed a quick jerk and may have been tagged anyway since there wasn't nearly enough room for him. Any later than that would likely have been too late. So could I have gotten zero blame only by catching that first flash and dodging him completely, or if I saw him and moved but a little too late would I be granted absolution?

Like I said originally, tough grader.

Talking 3rd party now?
J~

[Tom Scheifler]

OK, watch the video again and someone explain to me why the tires along that outside wall end where they do?
Had the tires extended another 10 ft or so the car might have survived.
This can't be the first time someone hit the wall after the tires.

[Ron Alan]

For pure safety every wall should have tires! I understand why many don't(straights and or pure lack of room walls)but no idea why everything else doesn't? Granted, a light parallel brush with a wall is far better than the car being "grabbed" by tires...but every serious injury I've seen in our region is contact with an unprotected Kwall.

[Jim Drago]

OK, watch the video again and someone explain to me why the tires along that outside wall end where they do?
Had the tires extended another 10 ft or so the car might have survived.
This can't be the first time someone hit the wall after the tires.

I have totaled a car outside of t1 in 2003 Road Atlanta and totaled another in 2007 outside turn 2 at Topeka... Neither spot had tires or foam blocks covering the concrete wall... After both my hits, they had tires and foam blocks afterwards

Jim

[Steve Scheifler]

Where I hit takes special effort, I suspect it's not where many land. On the other had, I did see impact marks other than mine so perhaps Joe is a regular there? Kidding!!

I know some impact zones are intentionally left "hard" because it's believed more dangerous for a car to bounce back out in traffic. Not like there is a shortage of old tires so In this case they probably just don't expect you to go off there.

[Topher]

https://youtu.be/iVNyFCKNDkI

 

Couple of thoughts:

 

Contrast Steve's video with this one. (FF to 6:10 mark). Damon was loose on the exit of Turn 3 forcing him to the outside. I could have easily tried to take advantage and jammed the car on the inside of Turn 4. Why didn't I? Judgment. His car is unsettled and there isn't much room for error there. It is a high risk move even in a racing situation. No place for it in a test day.

 

If anyone else has video of the Turn 1 incident at RA from Sat. race at the July Fry please PM me.

 

This thread has generated another interesting point of discussion: that of track safety measures. 

 

I am of the opinion that the club racing tracks we visit are in the dark ages when it comes to safety. There are Luddites in the audience who believe that the danger is part of the sport and separates the men from the boys.

Last weekend's HPDE death should make us second guess this philosophy.

 

Why do we have any bare concrete walls?  

 

And surely there is a better solution to slow cars down then pits of gravel. I recall reading (article about a journalist driving Kimi's 2014 Lotus F1 car) about a track surface that was textured and designed to scrub speed without immobilizing the cars.

 

Has there not been any improvements because the technology hasn't advanced, or is it just a function of track owners unwilling to make the investment?

 

Can we as club racers effect any changes to make the tracks safer?

 

Hell, IMSA no longer has its own medical team at races.  Pro drivers don't have a dedicated trauma trained physician at the track. How crazy is that? 

 

I can't help make a parallel to F1 in the 1950s when it comes to track safety. 

[tburas56]

I disagree.. Camera car is never even 3/4 of a car off of LS curbing. So to initiate this "pass" it appears from this video the driver has to put his lefts over the ls curb in a best case scenario.. On TEST day, sorry IMO, that was just a really bad decision. I hate to pass judgement without seeing the video from the other car, but from what I saw , it fairly conclusive. If the video Crowell car, I would love to see it.
I hate to see cars torn up at anytime, on test day is even worse. Just makes no sense whatsoever! Sorry about your car.

Were there any conversations post incident?

I agree with Jim. The guy over taking is at fault, where the camera car was in that turn he has to get back to left for the next S. Camera car over took clean in privious corner, I would have thought twice on test day about that one.

The second problem, that corner is not a place you are expecting a car to over take, especialy on test day. Now, if your five laps into a race, different story.

 

Sorry about the car.