1001 replies to this topic

[Sean - MiataCage]

Jim bought it up earlier... the cars would be ALOT closer on skinnier tires.  The 205 Hoosier is bigger than a 225 Toyo.  The current Hoosier tire is an exceptional value, for those of you that want the glory days of Toyo you are fooling yourself. I run SSM on Toyo's as well as SM and use one set per weekend shaved to within a gnats ass of its life to run up front...

 

Hoosier needs to make us a 195.

 

Couldn't possibly agree with this more..... I was not aware that it was ever on the table.....

 

- Reduced hub and bearing failure

- Makes the driver manage the car/tires throughout the entire race

- Potential reduction of destroying 3rd gear in the transmissions

- Overall height reduction (and possible weight) which helps the 1.6L

 

Sean

[Johnny D]

I just did this today on an engine dyno.  5K they are even, 6K its about 1.3hp, 7K its about 1.7hp torque is less than 2 across the board as well.  This was on an egine dyno so driveline losses are not taken into account so this is not what you would see at the wheels.  I believe as Ralph has pointed out this just takes the finding of the magic one out of the equation and lets everyone get closer to the same one and makes it possible to tech. 
 
The grind on the header we did was a B+ quick and dirty to simulate the amount of time that most would put into it with minimal tools.  I guess it could be a little bit better if someone wanted to invest the time into it.
 
It was an engine dyno, so the exhaust was not a Springfield Dyno like we would use on the cars.  The physical space constraints just don't easily make it possible.
 
Even though we have the flywheel evaluation that Tom/Steve and Rich did I am testing the flywheel on the egine dyno as well.  That should be completed this week as well.
 
Sean

Thanks for checking Sean.
J~

[Ron Alan]

https://www.youtube....v=UmzsWxPLIOoJ~

LOL...a little personal but could be your best post ever

[Jason J Ball]

I'd just like to say thanks to those that are testing these changes on their own dime for those of us that do not have time and/or money to do the work ourselves. Thank You!

[Bench Racer]

Thank you Sean.

 

Lightened OEM steel flywheel or 9.5 pound aluminum?

[Sean - MiataCage]

Thank you Sean.

 

Lightened OEM steel flywheel or 9.5 pound aluminum?

 

Lightened OEM - This ship has really already sailed and we have plenty of calculations from some pretty smart automotove engineers to prove it, but since I had a motor on the engine dyno I figured why not.  Just morbidly curious more than anything else..... I do absolutely believe the math that has been presented so far on the effects a lightened OEM flywheel would have and I expect to see nothign to the contrary.

 

Thanks.... Sean

[Tom Sager]

Exactly.  And that transition to NCs should be cold turkey.  Pick a year to implement and its NC only for SM.  Older cars can move to vintage or something like SM2, or whatever.

Did Jim Daniels steal your password?  

[Brandon]

The 94-97 owners are not as vocal and whiney as the 1.6 guys.

 

I don't think it's a case of being whiney or not but rather the understanding of "we already have a 1.8L engine & restrictor with a nearly identical drivetrain to the 99+ - we only need a few hundred RPM to cure our woes so let's get the 1.6L fixed first"

 

At least that's the thought that runs through my head.  

[MPR22]

I don't think it's a case of being whiney or not but rather the understanding of "we already have a 1.8L engine & restrictor with a nearly identical drivetrain to the 99+ - we only need a few hundred RPM to cure our woes so let's get the 1.6L fixed first"

 

At least that's the thought that runs through my head.  

So why don't they just find a solution to the 1.8 problem.  I would expect the SMAC can handle more than one problem at a time. Not understanding the ECU's not sure how difficult a task this is or is not.  Someone smarter than me, maybe David L., could speak on the subject. 

[Tom Sager]

So why don't they just find a solution to the 1.8 problem.  I would expect the SMAC can handle more than one problem at a time. Not understanding the ECU's not sure how difficult a task this is or is not.  Someone smarter than me, maybe David L., could speak on the subject. 

The SMAC seems like a capable bunch and yes the rev limiter hurts the 1.8 here and there.  The difference between the cars (NA1.8 and NB) that doesn't get enough air-time is the handling and how they drive.  The NB is a slightly better handling car, even at 50 pounds heavier. 

[Bench Racer]

^ Park your NA and race your NB.

Good luck this weekend.

[Jesse Prather]

Hi guys.

I just wanted to post in case anyone wanted to ask a particular question about the testing that I did earlier this year on the 1.6 for SCCA and Mazda.  I'm sure that most of you know that I'm familiar with how to dyno test a Miata and adjust things like timing and the afm/fpr.  All of this testing was done per the schedule by Mazda/SCCA and I made sure each step was done properly.  There are always variables when it comes to dyno testing but I was very diligent with water and oil temps as well as atmosphere equality as much as possible.  Any pointed questions are welcome. 

I apologize for not being more available on this forum for more information earlier. 

[Rob Burgoon]

I don't think it's a case of being whiney or not but rather the understanding of "we already have a 1.8L engine & restrictor with a nearly identical drivetrain to the 99+ - we only need a few hundred RPM to cure our woes so let's get the 1.6L fixed first"

 

At least that's the thought that runs through my head.  

 

My thought has always been "there are not nearly enough 1.8 owners for their demographic to matter, so they don't bother"

[Erik Hardy]

My thought has always been "there are not nearly enough 1.8 owners for their demographic to matter, so they don't bother"

 

..Or if there really is a parity issue, a few more mm's off the restrictor plate is all that is needed! Simple stuff!

[Dave D.]

I think it was stated somewhere before that changes to the plate in small increments aren't that noticeable/effective until +/- 2mm,which is a large change. Has anyone experimented with taking the plate off a NA 1.8 and running at NB weight? Is weight a finer adjustment than the gross changes of a plate is what I am asking I guess.

[Bench Racer]

????

 

http://images2.wikia...Clipjimidea.gif

[High Chair]

Interesting take as they have certainly won races here in SOWDIV.  

Who from the SOWDIV has won any race (or even been on the podium) against any front running 99-05 cars with known drivers? I'm not saying it hasn't happened but I am not aware of it if it has. However, I did pull up the SOWDIV races for 2015 and the only cars that were on the  podium were all 99-05 cars so i'm not sure how you can say 1.6s have won races in SOWDIV as that is certainly incorrect. I can assure you when most of us look at the entry list 1.6 cars are glossed over as they have 0% chance of winning and haven't even won a regional in the SE in a long time. 

[MPR22]

Who from the SOWDIV has won any race (or even been on the podium) against any front running 99-05 cars with known drivers? I'm not saying it hasn't happened but I am not aware of it if it has. However, I did pull up the SOWDIV races for 2015 and the only cars that were on the  podium were all 99-05 cars so i'm not sure how you can say 1.6s have won races in SOWDIV as that is certainly incorrect. I can assure you when most of us look at the entry list 1.6 cars are glossed over as they have 0% chance of winning and haven't even won a regional in the SE in a long time.

The two top 1.6 drivers in the division are Gale and Caesar. Gale does not race SCCA very often, usually only at TWS. He just beat a very good field in a NASA race last weekend. The only driver missing from that lineup was me and I took the weekend off so a 1.6 could win. Caesar has won in his 1.6 at MSRH just not this year, look at 2014 results.

[trimless]

Thanks MPR, so gracious of you to let me win by your absence this weekend . I owe you one.

TWS is not really a great 1.6 track so I had to drive a near perfect race for 45 minutes to win on Sunday. I made one small mistake that I can remember in that race, but still won anyway.  I followed John Babot and Chris Haldeman for a large portion of that race waiting for a mistake to make a move.  Got by Chris but John was not making any mistakes.  John did make one mistake (not really his fault), he ran out of gas! Trevor McCallion  did manage to get by me on the front straight with two laps to go but made one mistake that I took advantage of to secure the win.

 

It is really difficult to get by a good 99 in a 1.6 at any track.  I basically have to be patient and wait for a mistake, as trying any pass that slows momentum is a killer in a 1.6. Unless I am confident the pass will work I don't even bother to try.  In a 99 you can recover from either a mistake or ill attempted pass much easier. We all know the 1.6 lacks torque below 5500 rpm, not really an easy fix for that but a header seems to be the easiest remedy to decrease the gap between the cars.  Write your letters 1.6ers and well see what happens...

[MPR22]

Thanks MPR, so gracious of you to let me win by your absence this weekend . I owe you one.

TWS is not really a great 1.6 track so I had to drive a near perfect race for 45 minutes to win on Sunday. I made one small mistake that I can remember in that race, but still won anyway.  I followed John Babot and Chris Haldeman for a large portion of that race waiting for a mistake to make a move.  Got by Chris but John was not making any mistakes.  John did make one mistake (not really his fault), he ran out of gas! Trevor McCallion  did manage to get by me on the front straight with two laps to go but made one mistake that I took advantage of to secure the win.

 

It is really difficult to get by a good 99 in a 1.6 at any track.  I basically have to be patient and wait for a mistake, as trying any pass that slows momentum is a killer in a 1.6. Unless I am confident the pass will work I don't even bother to try.  In a 99 you can recover from either a mistake or ill attempted pass much easier. We all know the 1.6 lacks torque below 5500 rpm, not really an easy fix for that but a header seems to be the easiest remedy to decrease the gap between the cars.  Write your letters 1.6ers and well see what happens...

 

 

I will say it is hard to pass anyone at TWS if they don't make a mistake in any year car.  Gale can certainly wheel the 1.6 and to win in it as he said took near perfection.  

Sorry I could not come out, i have had a great run at TWS this year and would have liked to see it continue.