70 replies to this topic

[High Chair]

No the choice should be to open up our eyes.

 

I am not quite sure when this forum turned from being an extremely welcoming place to start an incredible journey into club racing into a forum and community full of hate and disrespect for the fellow competitor.  

 

Where is the hate? Strong disagreement, sarcastic comments, and a little BSing but there isn't any hate. This is amateur racing and nobody I know is going to get that pissed about it.

[Waterboy]

David hate to say it but if we go back and look at your posts I'd have to say you've been more demeaning to others more than most if not all.

[High Chair]

Yes because we all know the BEST drivers in the world run SM. As a matter of fact I got a chance to talk to Lewis Hamilton at Homestead a few weeks back and he was telling me if it wasn't for the money, he would rather run SM.

Cool I hope you got his autograph! Seriously, I'm not sure how you got that the I said the best drivers in the world drive SM. However, the SM class is full of drivers that can run their cars at 100% lap after lap. If Hamilton wanted to drive one I'm sure he too could get 100% out of the car with a little seat time. In other classes you just don't have the familiarity with the cars or the amount of cars capable of running the same speed. It's not that SM has the best drivers in the world as you put it; it is the fact that we have hundreds of very good drivers.

[David L]

Your right High Chair hate was the wrong word I will stick with disrespect.

 

Tim I looked back and I can not see where I really demeaned anyone but I will say that i have made some pretty strong accusations that people can take as mean. but they are not mean spirited, sometimes the truth is ugly. Maybe you can recall a conversation we had  at summit point where you yourself made some pretty bold accusations about a well respected competitor that we raced with.

[Cnj]

No the choice should be to open up our eyes.
 
I am not quite sure when this forum turned from being an extremely welcoming place to start an incredible journey into club racing into a forum and community full of hate and disrespect for the fellow competitor.

David, you did not get the subtlety of my post. Let me be less subtle. You have a history of coming on the forum and calling people cheaters (individually and in broad swathes), wanting them to be humiliated and drummed out of the class and generally inferring ill intent of many posters and class leaders. Regardless of how I feel about that, it's your right to see things as you see them. But to then come on and accuse the entire forum of hate mongering is bewildering - and I'm calling you on it.

Welcoming? Every poster who is new to the community and asks is barraged with offers of help. The level of commitment that so many offer to give away hard won knowledge (including those who differ with each other on this forum) is simply astounding. The level of commitment to relationship on and off the track makes this a community, albeit with disagreements and strong opinions. So hate and disrespect as the norm? Not so much.

CNJ

[Jim Drago]

This didn't take long... IMO the forum is simply a better place when you aren't posting. I'll give it a little more lead way. But not much

[David L]

100% Hate was not the word I should have used.

[Cnj]

Let's move on.

CNJ

[Waterboy]

Maybe you can recall a conversation we had at summit point where you yourself made some pretty bold accusations about a well respected competitor that we raced with.

And what does that have to do with anything? I don't remember saying I never said anything bad about anyone. You're quite the saint aren't your.

Demeaning, disparaging. Whatever you want to call it. I seem to remember you blasting out current national champ as a cheater when in fact he wasn't. But you sure wanted everyone to "know" he was.

Again you have way more negative posts than most if not all! Get over yourself, you'll be a better person for it.

[wreckerboy]

As a matter of fact I got a chance to talk to Lewis Hamilton at Homestead a few weeks back and he was telling me if it wasn't for the money, he would rather run SM.

Baloney. Lewis just can't find the right 1.6 to drive...

(ducks and runs for cover)

[Keith Andrews]

No the choice should be to open up our eyes.

 

I am not quite sure when this forum turned from being an extremely welcoming place to start an incredible journey into club racing into a forum and community full of hate and disrespect for the fellow competitor.  

 

 

This is the guy you are saying we should respect  http://autoweek.com/...ictment-sources

[38bfast]

I can't say I am a big Scott Tucker fan. His way of making all that money doesn't sit well with me. Legal or not.

That said if you have unlimited money, ulimited time and the proper motivation it's almost a unbeatable combination. So if someone wanted to get to the top of SM that combination would do it. I agree that money alone won't get you there but if you add in a good amount of the other two......

[David L]

Nothing more than just pushing the GREY area to the limits.

 

I did a quick internet search and couldn't find any instances of him ever being disqualified for being non compliant, more than you can say for some people on this forum. (Yes I know that doesn't make it true)

 

This is a racing thing not a business thing, there are many business men with sub par ethical practices maybe even on this forum.

 

 

 

[Bench Racer]

David L. me (David D.) and you need to hire someone to write our posts to the standards of this site. Hey, maybe Jamz14 will write for we who need a

writer.

 

I read David L. posts and say to my self, maybe a wrong word here and there but he's speaking his mind. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Within my thought process (were each different) plenty of SM family folks on this site talk down to other SM family folks.

 

For a few years I participated within the Improved Touring site while I had an ITA car. It became a site where less and less folks posted if you were not among the chosen.  

[Cnj]

Bench,

You and David L have radically different styles of communication so even if there were standards (which there are not) or a committee which regulates "the chosen" (which there is not), neither of you would fit in the same grouping.

I enjoy your provocative promotion of the black helicopter idea that there is a select group of people that control all the dialogue on the site. Your 3,189 posts suggests otherwise

CNJ.

[Bench Racer]

If there are no standards on this site, a minimal number of people would not have been given a vacation now and then. Or maybe some folks definition of standards are different.   Out of curiosity, how long have you been a participant on this site?

[Cnj]

Nothing more than just pushing the GREY area to the limits.
 
I did a quick internet search and couldn't find any instances of him ever being disqualified for being non compliant, more than you can say for some people on this forum. (Yes I know that doesn't make it true)
 
This is a racing thing not a business thing, there are many business men with sub par ethical practices maybe even on this forum.

David,

Your point is made. Racing is racing and business is business. I acknowledge finding it hard to ignore a RICO investigation as I don't equate it to "sub par business practices". Like some others, I have a distaste for how he makes his money, but as you have pointed out, this has nothing to do with his driving skills or his rules compliance.

With all of that said, the engineer in me was enthralled with the DSR project. I had heard about the project but had no idea the extent to which they pushed the envelope. It must have been very exciting to be part of the project. I have had a handful of "money is no object" projects in my career and they are energizing and scary. Scary because most projects have financial constraints placed on them and so it's easy to blame these constraints for less than stellar performance. When there is no budget limit, there is no one else to blame!

CNJ

[Cnj]

If there are no standards on this site, a minimal number of people would not have been given a vacation now and then. Or maybe some folks definition of standards are different.   Out of curiosity, how long have you been a participant on this site?

Since 2006 I think. When there were standards - of a varying sort depending on the mood of the (then) site owner

If there are current standards they are unspoken. No (or little) profanity, limited political diatribes, try to stay on topic (not what we are doing) etc. To my knowledge very few (if any at all) people have been excised on the new site and its pretty rare for Jim to even delete posts. All things considered this is a moderately polite crowd that self regulates. Quite surprising given the type A personalities involved. I think in part this is because we race in a highly competitive class where we know each other and getting too much in each other's face can lead to dangerous situations on the track. Many sites have far more aggressive moderation.

CNJ.

[David L]

I vacation a lot   Some justifiable some definitely not. But I am not complaining, I believe Jim has been mostly fair with me,

 

I will tell you the issues I have with a couple of builders is not formed from speculation or black helicopters.

 

We all came to Spec Miata for one thing, to measure ourselves against the best. The best can be a guy spending 100K a year or a guy spending 10K, when non compliant cars come to a race they STEAL from everybody else on the race track. From my experiences (3x) the non compliant cars owners had no idea, they were paying good money for race services. They had no idea, and they walked away with the checkered flag. And this goes for any finishing position.

 

I have never begrudged anyone for spending money, good bless them spend away but be legal and more importantly demand from your builders that it is legal.      

[Cnj]

I have never begrudged anyone for spending money, good bless them spend away but be legal and more importantly demand from your builders that it is legal.

No arguments from me.

CNJ