95 replies to this topic

[Johnny D]

But RT700 is like $33 for 16oz when Castrol is $7 for 12oz.

 

J~

[Steve Scheifler]

And Valvoline Dot 3/4 is about $7 for 32oz, not to mention available everywhere. What you require for your heavy and much faster track car isn't a good indicator of what you need for SM. Blackhawk is the acid test around here and even turning laps at the TR we have never boiled the fluid, which is the concern. I definitely do a thorough bleed for that track, but otherwise at most a quick bleed before each weekend and a full bleed every few events. And if you insist on being needlessly obsessive about it at least it won't break the bank.

This stuff comes up a lot and it seems to me that many low-budget racers are wasting time and money. For example I have no idea why you would change transmission fluid every few events. It doesn't get that hot (clear enough by looking at and smelling it) and there is no other reason why it should be changed often. Engine oil gets pretty hot on the 1.6 without any oil cooler at all, but even it doesn't need to be changed each event. Little known fact: A study by Ford showed that the greatest amount of wear occurred in the first few hundred miles after an oil change. Are you sure you want to change it every weekend if not actually necessary? Can you state exactly what failure you are averting? Point is, give it some thought beyond "better safe than sorry".

[Steve Scheifler]

Oh, and if I'm not mistaken, at least two SM Runoffs and several June Sprints have been won at Road America on the Valvoline brake fluid that you can buy at Autozone and Walmart.

[davew]

As you spend more time on this forum, you will learn who the smart guys are and who the BS artists are. There is nothing that will pi$$ off the true experts more than saying you know better before you have even run a race. I am sure you did not mean it that way, but sometimes typing can be mis-interprited. Just a word of warning.

 

Lots of smart people here. Some don't race any more. Some race a lot. Then you guys like me who can't race very often due to the fact that I spend 30 weekends a year at the track. Averaging 10 cars per weekend and most are double weekends. And many are 2 class cars. That is a lot of races/experience. Even an old street car mechanic like me can get good at chick race cars with enough repatition.

 

Steve, we won 5 races at the Sprints this year and Runoffs at Laguna in T4, all on LMA. I have never had a fluid issue using LMA. Then again, I have never used Valvoline, so I can not say it won't work. Remember that some fluids are not capatable with "regular fluids". Castrol SRF and AP 600 come to mind.

[Steve Scheifler]

Dave, I've never questioned your depth of experience in this class and frequently defer to it over my personal experience. And in your position you can say with a straight face that it makes sense to use a theoretically better brake fluid. But for a guy just getting started, unlikely to be setting sub-record laps at Blackhawk 10 weekends a year, and trying to save where he can, I can say with great confidence that anything more expensive than the Valvoline "synthetic" is a waste of money at most if not all tracks.

[wreckerboy]

To the OP:

Welcome to the stupidity. The tangents can be epic, but at the very least get Dave's book. I've been racing for years and still find/found it to be a great resource.

I'm located in central Enn Jay (near East Brunswick), and Brandon, who posted above is located up north. I'd be happy to help/answer questions/let you poke through my car, which is a WDCR SSM 1.6. Feel free to PM me.

I'm not aware of any decent SCCA SM prep shops in the area, but we are not resource free around here. You'll just have to travel. As noted, I run SSM, so most of my contacts are based down at Summit Point. Heck, it's "only" 300 miles away. I've used Meathead, RP Performance, and Performance Automotive all with great results and have no qualms about recommending them. Around here off the top of my head you have Planet Miata in PA, and Kessler Engineering up in CT. TZ Automotive is Dave Deerson's shop in East Brunswick, but he's a NASA guy and I'm not sure how much SCCA specific guidance he can give. He's done a little work for me and the quality has been good.

Rob

[Qyxz]

How often are you guys changing out the Valvoline or LMA?  I take it from the light weight and relatively modest speed, brakes are not the #1 concern like they are on other cars. 

 

And thanks for the offer, Rob.  I'll shoot you a PM with some questions. 

[davew]

A wise old racer once told me "You will never go fast if you don't trust your brakes" He taught me to over maintenance the brakes so I never have to worry about them.

 

Again, we are at the 2 toughest tracks on brakes in the USA. We take a couple squirts every night and empty the master at the shop and fill with fresh.

 

Brake fluid is hygroscopic, big fancy mis-spelled word for it absorbs moisture. As soon as the bottle is opened, brake fluid starts to deteriorate through absorbsion. When you open a bottle of brake fluid, date it with a sharpie. After 30 days it should be discarded. That is why I like small bottles.

 

Brake fluid is cheap. At $6 per bottle, even if you use an entire bottle a weekend, it only adds $6 to your weekend expenses. And gives you the peace of mind to not worry about your brakes. You will never go fast if you don't trust your brakes.

 

Dave

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Has this thread gone on tangents. What started as a guy asking for advice has gone to arguments about long division and transmission life expectancy.

I agree with Jim, I have seen low milage late model transmissions that are just plain worn out inside. Yet a high miles, 1.6 trans can look beautiful inside. Just as transmission failure is 99% driver controlled, so is donor trans condition. You never know until you open it up. I have seen guys go through a trans in 3+ years. And others can not get 3 days. I have also seen the trans abusers turn into the guys who get 3 years.

Another option for may be to run with one of the prep shops. I am not in your area, so I am not trying to sell you my services. Figure the cost of acquiring and storing spare parts, purchasing and maintaining a truck and trailer versus the cost of having someone else do the dirty work. You may find that you can race for several years before reaching the tipping point.

Welcome to the madness
Dave

This is a great thread, but we haven't even gotten. To parity yet... Oh boy in wait till we start talking about that.

Btw you can have a blast racing this class on a very low budget! And still have plenty of door to door racing out there...

[WSM1]

Another noob here, an earlier post caught my attention. What "go fast" parts would you be talking about? My understanding is that everything has to be stock specs. I am just starting to build my car, something that I have been wanting to do for a long time. Mostly because I just like to do it, but of course I would like to do it with out an excessive budget.

[Johnny D]

Welcome, it's helpful if you click the "quote" button from the post you were refering to so we know what "go fast" post your talking about.

 

Just sayin,

J~

[Bench Racer]

Another noob here, an earlier post caught my attention. What "go fast" parts would you be talking about? My understanding is that everything has to be stock specs.

Mission number one, read and understand the GCR address below. Pay attention to the rules because they are specifying, if the rules don't say you can make a modification, then you can't make a modification. Use the parts specified and your golden.

 

Spec Miata Specifications page 755 from the SCCA GCR (General Competition Rules)

 

http://cdn.growasset....pdf?1472053873

 

Mission number two get to a track and meet some SM folks, everyone is willing to share.

 

Mission number three, Have Fun.

David

[Erik Hardy]

Another noob here, an earlier post caught my attention. What "go fast" parts would you be talking about? My understanding is that everything has to be stock specs. I am just starting to build my car, something that I have been wanting to do for a long time. Mostly because I just like to do it, but of course I would like to do it with out an excessive budget.

 

"Go fast" parts are the items that separate the low budget builds from the higher end builds. These components may not make the vehicle faster, but often are creature comfort parts such as but not limited to: Daq systems, gauges on gauges on gauges, helmet hooks, mirrors, Halo seats, shift knobs, shift lights, radio systems, cool suit systems, swede steering wheels, etc. Basically, all the stuff that you might want, that cost a bunch of money, that don't necessarily make the car faster.

 

However, Non creature comfort "go fast" parts that might actually make the car faster but are still in "spec" include: A freshly built cylinder head combined with a smooth as butter casting, freshly rebuilt torsen differential, rebuilt transmission, beautiful exhaust header, big ass aluminum radiator, fuel pressure regulator, exhaust bits, etc. These items arguably make the car faster and should be included in your build if you want that last 1/2 second of your lap time. 

 

All of these "go-fast" bits cost a lot of money, that can magically disappear between the track and someones garage. Hence the reason why you may want to buy the car as-is right from the track!

[av8tor]

Don't forget the special grease.

[Qyxz]

Any suggestions on best way to go about buying a car?  Been keeping an eye out on the classifieds and on other sites like racing junk.  But real slim pickings out there.  Are there usually more cars for sale as the season wraps up?

[Danny Steyn]

Any suggestions on best way to go about buying a car?  Been keeping an eye out on the classifieds and on other sites like racing junk.  But real slim pickings out there.  Are there usually more cars for sale as the season wraps up?

 

Qyxz. ALL CARS ARE FOR SALE ALL THE TIME! Let me repeat this. ALL CARS ARE FOR SALE ALL THE TIME!

 

The best way is to determine how much you want to spend on a car, go to a track for the weekend and make offers on the cars you see racing there. All of us drivers have a price and we all know what we will accept. Most of us are delusional in two ways. First we are really proud of our cars and often ask more than they are worth, but even more importantly, we all believe that if we build a newer version with what we already know, that the new care will be faster. Trust me I have fallen prey to this delusion, and it took me a year to get my new car to be as good as the car I sold (albeit for a handsome price)

 

Some front running Majors drivers will want in excess of $40k for their cars. Some will get it, others not so much. Depends on whats in it, what the pedigree is. and HOW MUCH YOU LOVE IT. Some top 10 drivers will accept $20+k, and some others will accept $15+k. You will not insult anyone by asking how much he wants for his car, or making an offer.

 

The best time to buy a car is as it drives off the track after setting a track record or winning a race, but dont let it out of your sight. Buy it at the track, take it home with you. Sometimes the go-fast goodies disappear if it the car first goes back before it is shipped to you. 

 

Buying a fast car that has a pedigree will remove all excuses, and you can focus on your driving skills. Building something from scratch, unless you have done his hundreds of times before, is no guarantee that you will get it right, and you will often mistake you lack of pace for lack of skills, when it might just be a simple issue with the build that is compromising your speed.

Good luck either way.

[Johnny D]

Lets back this up a little...

How much is your budget and what are you expecting to get ?

J~

[Qyxz]

I'd like to avoid the OBDI cars as I hear they require constant fiddling with tune to make consistent power. 

Budget of around $12k which probably rules out the 1.8s. 

So maybe something like a 96 or 97.  Capable of running in the front half of the grid.   Reasonable? 

[Johnny D]

Any need for it to be street legal?  you have a trailer ?

Also 94~97 are 1.8's

 

Don't shoot the messenger here, no knowledge of the condition of the cars.

 

http://www.racingjun...Spec-Miata.html

 

I assume this is sold from the date but IDK

http://specmiataclas...hp?topic=2252.0

 

Maybe someone here will chim in with something. Dave you got a rental ?

J~

[Jamz14]

 

Budget of around $12k which probably rules out the 1.8s. 

So maybe something like a 96 or 97.  Capable of running in the front half of the grid.   Reasonable? 

Reasonable? - No.

 

I could list a bunch of qualifiers for my statement but in trying to answer respecting what I think you are asking........... no.