177 replies to this topic

[Jamz14]

Danny, please forgive my comment on top prep. I mixed up the numbers.

[Danny Steyn]

Danny, please forgive my comment on top prep. I mixed up the numbers.

 

No problem Jamz, no offense taken!

[Tom Sager]

Add 2.1.9:
9. Firearms are not permitted in competition vehicles while on course.

 

 

 

 

I thought that rule was specific to A-sedan only. 

[Jim Drago]

Oh Yes it is. Ignore the Numbers - every dyno yields different numbers

For instance Rossini and OPM dynojets are both very similar in numbers but about 5 less than other top prep shop dyno's

 

Really top shelf 99's on Rossini and OPM dyno is around 126Hp, 118TQ and top shelf VVT are around 124HP, 122 TQ

FWIW.. my dyno and OPM dyno read 2.5 apart on same car, two days apart with near identical conditions.

 

As far as the NA 1.8,  I have never seen this much of a gain, nor has the few others I have asked. I think it would be best to average the gains form a few top builders to manage expectations as 5 is the highest I have heard.  

 

In order for your numbers to be completely accurate IMO, I would need to see runs 32,33,34 with the restrictor plate back in and 35,36,37 with it out.. all under the same conditions. It may have been done, but the graph you are showing may/may not be completely accurate, not enough info to tell. But it is not what I have seen and I have tested it as mentioned above, so I am left scratching my head a bit with those numbers.

[Danica Davison]

Not mentioning any names or any other details, but the gun in a drivers suit thing did happen and there were threats made.  In Florida of course where all the crazies live

[chris haldeman]

Time for the na1.8 guys too start flow bench testing intakes

[Johnny D]

FWIW.. my dyno and OPM dyno read 2.5 apart on same car, two days apart with near identical conditions.

 

As far as the NA 1.8,  I have never seen this much of a gain, nor has the few others I have asked. I think it would be best to average the gains form a few top builders to manage expectations as 5 is the highest I have heard.  

 

In order for your numbers to be completely accurate IMO, I would need to see runs 32,33,34 with the restrictor plate back in and 35,36,37 with it out.. all under the same conditions. It may have been done, but the graph you are showing may/may not be completely accurate, not enough info to tell. But it is not what I have seen and I have tested it as mentioned above, so I am left scratching my head a bit with those numbers.

 

Do the F1 or NASCAR guys, dyno in an environmental chamber to cut down some of the factors ?

 

J~

[davew]

Do the F1 or NASCAR guys, dyno in an environmental chamber to cut down some of the factors ?

 

J~

 

Yes. plus, when they wind tunnel test, they put the car into a slide (yaw) with ratchet straps tied to the rear of the car. With the rolling road wind tunnel it chews up the tires and the rolling road belts (really expensive) in no time. So they teflon coat the tire tread to allow the tire to slip sideways without chewing up the expensive belt and tires. TOOOOOOO much money!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I have mentioned this before, but here goes again.

 

When I first bought my Dynojet, I had a problem with the cooling fan for the red box that controls the dyno. Dynojet sent me a replacement overnight and I lost 2hp. Switched the boxes and gained the 2hp back. Last year, I had a computer crash and lost the software for the dyno. I reloaded the latest software and lost 2 hp again!!!! Every dyno is different. The only real comparison is to dyno the same day under the same conditions. Keep the variables to a minimum. I use the same set of tires/wheels for every dyno run. Wish I could afford a dyno room (cell) but they cost more than the dyno

 

Dave

[Bench Racer]

Damn liberals taking our guns!     Nobody tell Cliff Brown !

You mean, Hillary and friends along with the porn queen that scorned Trump for IIRC kissing her without permission. A couple years ago I bought a Smith and Wesson with two 16 count clips just because I was tired of hearing Obama grumbling about high capacity clips killing all those people. Today I bought a laser red dot, easier to aim in the dark, within my home of course.

[MPR22]

Not mentioning any names or any other details, but the gun in a drivers suit thing did happen and there were threats made.  In Florida of course where all the crazies live

The driver in question should be banned from competition for life.  Regardless of rules, a threat of violence with a firearm is a felony even in Florida. 

[MPR22]

The driver in question should be banned from competition for life.  Regardless of rules, a threat of violence with a firearm is a felony even in Florida. 

Now that being said, If I have to get out of my car and straighten a few things out with my arms and legs and such then I should receive a one race suspension and a $100 fine.  (In the paddock of course, never on the racing surface). 

[Jim Drago]

The driver in question should be banned from competition for life.  Regardless of rules, a threat of violence with a firearm is a felony even in Florida. 

In Texas.. that is just another day

[BNaumann]

Well Ralph can scratch gun rack from the V2 Motorsports cage option list. Jim I need another half ballast plate.

[Rob Burgoon]

The person with the firearm and the one making threats might not be the same person...

[David L]

You mean, Hillary and friends along with the porn queen that scorned Trump for IIRC kissing her without permission. A couple years ago I bought a Smith and Wesson with two 16 count clips just because I was tired of hearing Obama grumbling about high capacity clips killing all those people. Today I bought a laser red dot, easier to aim in the dark, within my home of course.

The proper term would be "magazine". 

[BNaumann]

.

[Xav]

I wasnt complaining...a little tongue in check maybe as NASA did not change right away last time

 

If I get 5 and 5...well, lets just say the value of my car went back up! Thank you! The last time this car was at 2400lbs it was running the 47mm plate. The down side to this change is the only thing you can do if an adjustment is necessary is add weight    

 

In regards to this comment, please note that NASA national leadership has taken a change of guard and I function completely different than that of the former director.

 

FWIW - Behind the scenes I have shared dyno sheets with the SMAC and have worked very, very, hard to open up lines of communication between us.

[Bench Racer]

The proper term would be "magazine". 

Clip, misused term by me and many in gun shops.

[Ron Alan]

 

Ron

Its more than 3, but definitely less than 5 and should be a very nice change.  They can also remove weight if needed.

 

 

 

So my early somewhat sarcastic fake optimism seemed to do a fly over...

 

 

I agree with you Jim...3/3 will be more the norm. 5/5 would be a change...3/3 and +50lbs isn't in my opinion. The additional weight and what comes along with it is a push. At least this is my gut reaction...nothing scientific just what I see on the track with relitive lap times(compared to others that day) and driver feedback. So if in fact the gains are more than I think...maybe a fractional difference. But as always totally track dependent.

 

We started in the 1.8 NA car at 2400lbs and a 47RP. Went to 2365 and 45RP. Then to 2350 with same plate. Currently at 2350 with 47RP. The difference between the 45 and 47 was actually really hard to see...noise almost. What helped this car the most IMO was the weight loss over the last 4 years! It really became a better handling/raceable car and suited our choice of the smaller bar. That said, time will tell if this change makes a difference...I will wait and see with everyone else how it shakes out! But if in fact there is no gain...I will be the first to holler for my RP back or 30lbs off!

 

MPR...on any given day the best car doesn't necessarily always win (am I preaching to the choir?)

[Danny Steyn]

The issue with trying to achieve parity on the 1.8NA is just as complex as with the 1.6NA and we had many drivers suggesting completely polar opposite approaches on what they wanted, each playing to their strengths (as one would expect). It is entirely possible that we have nailed this perfectly first time out, but we also may be way off with these adjustments. Time will tell.

 

We encourage ALL NA1.8 drivers to email myself or any of the the SMAC members data AND video from tracks that they run at, so that we can compare the data to front running NB cars that were on the track the same session. Video is required so that we can remove anomalies that occur due to drafting, being skunked, messing up, not getting to WOT before apex, etc.

 

It helps us if you can also supply the following info.

• Ambient conditions Temp, relative Humidity, Dew Point, wind, sunny, cloudy etc.
• Car and driver weight as weighed after the session
• Track temp
• Camber 
• Tires, Age and HC
• Tire pressures cold, tire pressures hot

The more data we get the more it will help us to understand what we might still need to do. Look forward to your contributions.