80 replies to this topic

[38bfast]

All cars passed tech. I know on Saturday they checked fuel and on Sunday they checked third gear and flywheel weight.

Got to love the smell of hot gear oil.

Frank you wanted to freshen that box anyway

[38bfast]

Great race today. Congrats to Carter for the win, but the fun stuff was from 2nd to 7th. Great when SM racers go wheel to wheel. Sorry to see Stearns go off in T6, taking Davis with him, and sad to see Drago losing it in T11 under pressure from Bender.
But when the top 5 qualify within 1/10th of a second and the top 17 qualify within 1 second, you know you are racing in the BEST DAMN CLASS IN ALL IF CLUB RACING!

Danny it truly is amazing. Pro built cars, garage built cars. Many different engine builders. Many different setups. Ages of drivers from high school to AARP. and it still comes out within fractions of a second. All with cars never intended for the purpose of racing.

[Jim Drago]

Congratulations to Adam Roberts and Michael Carter with both winning their first super tour Race. Also congrats to Justin, Jordan and Danny Bender on podium positions. Solid drives by Jonathan Davis and Spencer Rutherford, unfortunately both ended with pretty bad weekends as well. See you all in a few weeks at the Sprints

[EMatoy]

Congrats to Adam and Michael. Overall a fun weekend for me still working to figure out the new car.
On Saturday after qualifying tech looked to make sure the vin and engine matched, lower ball joints, front bump stops, restrictor plate color and rear lower control arms. I think there was 3 others pulled in - random mainly from the back of the field.

[Danica Davison]

From what I hear and Hille can speak to this if I am wrong, he is not allowed to race the races due to blowing registration and doing practice/qual... I'm sure it was a complete oversight on his part as I have known him for years and never known him to purposefully break and rules.

If true scca at a minimum did the right thing penalties could have been worse. Can have people on track who have not signed the waiver etc I suppose.

Apologize in advance if I have this story wrong...

 

I heard this was the story too. In my opinion, I just don't know if the punishment fit the crime. Since he does a lot of majors, he probably has a majors hard card with an annual waiver ... so registration at the track really isn't a big deal. And as far as pre weekend tech goes, unless he needs an annual ... they don't even look at the car.  Sorry to hear that Justin, I think a slap on the wrist would have been fine

[FTodaro]

I heard this was the story too. In my opinion, I just don't know if the punishment fit the crime. Since he does a lot of majors, he probably has a majors hard card with an annual waiver ... so registration at the track really isn't a big deal. And as far as pre weekend tech goes, unless he needs an annual ... they don't even look at the car.  Sorry to hear that Justin, I think a slap on the wrist would have been fine

I have signed the hard Card waiver every year and they still make me sign the waiver form. They just do not follow their own procedure. So I would agree that there should be no need to sign a waiver unless the track wants theirs signed and at least at Mid-O its not required.

[JRHille]

My biggest problem was I decided to say I wasn't out on track for practice. Took a stupid stupid gamble that they wouldn't keep digging into it. Had I told the truth initially when I registered after practice I think the penalty would've been much less severe

[Ron Alan]

Congrats to Adam and Michael. Overall a fun weekend for me still working to figure out the new car.
On Saturday after qualifying tech looked to make sure the vin and engine matched, lower ball joints, front bump stops, restrictor plate color and rear lower control arms. I think there was 3 others pulled in - random mainly from the back of the field.

Vin and engine...get this

lower ball joints...get this

front bump stops...? what are we looking for here? something different that is an advantage?

rear lower control arms...? what is being checked? bushings?

Flywheel...get this

transmission...3rd gear? what is being checked for? 

 

Thanks for any answers in advance...just want to understand specifically what the cheat is instead of speculating!

[davew]

What a weekend for Advanced Autosports.

 

Thanks to a last minute phone call, we added a 5th car for the trip, which put us 4 hours late leaving the shop. That put us in rush hour traffic going through Chicago. Then blew a tire on the trailer just over the boarder into Ohio. Arrived at Mid Ohio at 1;30am. But we did get a nice paddock spot!

 

Bender was P4 after first round qualifying. Voytek had work commitments that he could not get out of, and did not arrive at the track untill Saturday morning. Saturdays q2 was quicker, with Bender ending up 9th and Votek 16th. Hilles issue moved them each up a spot for the Saturday race. Bender stayed calm through the entire race as he watched front runners dropping like flys to the red mist. Eventually coming home in P2. Voytek ended up 11th after getting hung up in traffic.

 

Bender's fuel was tested, restictor plate pulled and measured and the trans bolts where sealed for removal on Sunday.

 

Sundays race was back to original starting positions with Justin's reinstatement. Bender fell back as Voytek moved quicker through traffic, pulling Gagliardo ( in another Advanced built car) with him. As the race came to the final few laps, the Red Mist reappeared, and the front pack started running into problems. Through patience and smart driving, the 3 Advanced cars ended up 3-4-5 at the finish.

 

Post Sunday, Bender had a stall test. Would have done plate again, but it was sealed on Saturday so that was eliminated. We pulled the trans out and had flywheel weighed. Gagliardo was a random pull for trans and flywheel. So we pulled that one out also. Once again, all the top cars passed tech with no issues. One midpack/random pick car was found light on both days.

 

For anyone who thinks this is not a drivers class; Benders car was purchased from one of my other customers just before the Blackhawk Major. This was from a mid-pack Major driver, front pack at a Regional. With only enough time to change the seat position, he finished 2nd both days at Blackhawk. Finished 2nd and 3rd at Mid Ohio, with no changes to the car. I would estimate a 15 position movement just by changing driver.

 

As I pulled out of the track, the transport rig shut down. No warning, no nothing. And I mean nothing electrical. Everything for the truck lost power, no headlights, no 4 ways, no nutin'. After playing on the entrance road for 3 hours in the off and on thunderstorms, we found a power connection behind the fuse box that the factory never tightened down. Thanks to an unknown local guy (could have been a worker or a spectator) and Jim Locke for helping us trace down the issue. We made a temporary repair and hit the road, arriving home about 2:30 this morning. Now I have to pull the dash out to make a proper repair.

 

Great event, even the spagetti dinner on Saturday night was good. But Mid Ohio really needs to work on its facilities. And I do mean the bathrooms. The 2 porta-johns  at the paddock entrance were absolutely discusting. They had not been serviced since May 15th and where almost overflowing on Saturday. The ones at the Pavilion where just as bad for the dinner party. And the perminent bathrooms are like something out of the 60's. Which I think they really are! Mid-Ohio, if you want to be a first class race facility, get you "facilities" up to modern standards.

 

Congrats to all the podium finishers and to all who participated

Dave

[davew]

Vin and engine...get this

lower ball joints...get this

front bump stops...? what are we looking for here? something different that is an advantage?

rear lower control arms...? what is being checked? bushings?

Flywheel...get this

transmission...3rd gear? what is being checked for? 

 

Thanks for any answers in advance...just want to understand specifically what the cheat is instead of speculating!

 

Bump stops: some people have been found to run without them, this creates more suspension travel

Lower arms: I have no answer, non of my cars had that inspection. 

Trans Gears: Looking for coated, polished, REMed, etc.

[Ron Alan]

My biggest problem was I decided to say I wasn't out on track for practice. Took a stupid stupid gamble that they wouldn't keep digging into it. Had I told the truth initially when I registered after practice I think the penalty would've been much less severe

Though my guess is at times people take advantage of this in NASA...the fact that you show up, get in your car and hit the track without the need for registration, wrist bans, gear check, or anything else sure is nice!

 

Sorry to hear it didnt work out so well for you Justin 

[FTodaro]

Just an observational note about the transmission testing that was done and an FYI if you happen to be the lucky Dog on the transmission pull.

 

In our case, they had us pull the box and split the case, they were examining the gears to see if they had been treated. If they were counting teeth, i did not observe it, but they did have a reference box of gears that were Stock, polished, and REM'ed This is a visual comparison test.

 

I am not sure if Dave W. or Mark B. have made this observation on the consistency of the gears that i have seen in Mazda boxes, but a REM'ed gear or part stands out like a sore thumb no question. However a polished gear is not as easy to detect. I think i can detect it, but my point is, i have seen gears in boxes some look shiner than others that were stock, depending on the year of the car, I could see a mistake being made where someone has stock gears that looks to good, or shinny.

 

I could be wrong on that, as i did not pay to close attention as I was 100% positive i would pass.

 

Also when you split a box there is a large C clip on the front main bearing, carry a pair of separation pliers  they look like snap ring pliers with a flat edge, it will speed up the process. Ask how far they want you to break it down, because if they want to to split all three sections you will need a punch to knock out 3 roll pins. We did not have to do this.

 

Lastly, they gave me my flywheel back saying it was "Good" , "right at the limit". When i weighed it i was like an oz over.

[davew]

I agree with Frank, stock gears can vary in color and "texture". Some are brown, some black and some are silver. REMed gears are obvious, but there are processes to take a REMed gear and make it look stock.

 

My opinion is all this is wasted expense. Build a box the way it is supposed to be. Not enough gain for the dollars spent.

 

Dave

[Jim Drago]

Just an observational note about the transmission testing that was done and an FYI if you happen to be the lucky Dog on the transmission pull.
 
In our case, they had us pull the box and split the case, they were examining the gears to see if they had been treated. If they were counting teeth, i did not observe it, but they did have a reference box of gears that were Stock, polished, and REM'ed This is a visual comparison test.
 
I am not sure if Dave W. or Mark B. have made this observation on the consistency of the gears that i have seen in Mazda boxes, but a REM'ed gear or part stands out like a sore thumb no question. However a polished gear is not as easy to detect. I think i can detect it, but my point is, i have seen gears in boxes some look shiner than others that were stock, depending on the year of the car, I could see a mistake being made where someone has stock gears that looks to good, or shinny.
 
I could be wrong on that, as i did not pay to close attention as I was 100% positive i would pass.
 
Also when you split a box there is a large C clip on the front main bearing, carry a pair of separation pliers  they look like snap ring pliers with a flat edge, it will speed up the process. Ask how far they want you to break it down, because if they want to to split all three sections you will need a punch to knock out 3 roll pins. We did not have to do this.
 
Lastly, they gave me my flywheel back saying it was "Good" , "right at the limit". When i weighed it i was like an oz over.

Tech has all versions of illegally treated gears as I provided samples of them to John Bauer in 2014..

As far as flywheel.. they weighed mine with same accuracy.. hand held fish scale and got the same answer.. my guess is they are looking to make sure you aren't a pound light or something, but I don't know this as a certainty.

[davew]

I have a set of REMed gears on the shelf. Also a set of REMed diff gears. Amazing how many illegal parts you find in the home built cars that run mid pack. And how few you find in the front group. I also have several lightened flywheels

 

Mistakes happen, including me. But I honestly think the purposefully non-compliant stuff has left the class.

[DrDomm]

Amazing how many illegal parts you find in the home built cars that run mid pack.

 

I'm sure there are many many more LEGAL parts in our home built cars that run mid pack (or farther back).

[SaulSpeedwell]

 I am just coming off of a hip replacement surgery ...

 

I always thought you were pretty hip, but I think Tommy's "Kojak" look is better, and he has the cooler name.  I think you should shave your head and let us call you Frankie! 

[SaulSpeedwell]

Just an observational note about the transmission testing that was done and an FYI if you happen to be the lucky Dog on the transmission pull.

 

In our case, they had us pull the box and split the case, they were examining the gears to see if they had been treated. If they were counting teeth, i did not observe it, but they did have a reference box of gears that were Stock, polished, and REM'ed This is a visual comparison test.

 

I am not sure if Dave W. or Mark B. have made this observation on the consistency of the gears that i have seen in Mazda boxes, but a REM'ed gear or part stands out like a sore thumb no question. However a polished gear is not as easy to detect. I think i can detect it, but my point is, i have seen gears in boxes some look shiner than others that were stock, depending on the year of the car, I could see a mistake being made where someone has stock gears that looks to good, or shinny.

 

 

Once upon a time, I looked up the military tech papers on REM-ISF.  It reduces friction by 3%, or 7%, or whatever, I don't remember. But, a manual transmission is already 99%-ish efficient, so we are talking about 3% of the remaining 1%, or a whopping 0.03-0.07 ft-lbs.  Once I read that, I never once worried about what I was missing out by not having REM'd parts.  I'm sure one of the Detroit engineers can tell us if the OEMs are using REM-ISF to reach their 54.5 MPG CAFE goals ... because if it was REALLY worth 1%, I would bet my bookshelf full of $4 trophies that the OEMs would have been doing it since CAFE was implemented. 

 

What REM-ISF improves more dramatically is eliminating stress risers in fragile parts - like turbine blades, and any part of a BMW, including the trunk latches and the owner's ego.

 

There is only one time I strongly recommend REM in a Miata drivetrain, and that is if we are using brand new ring/pinion gears in a non-SM differential (i.e. new Kia 4.77s or 4.44s), and we have no time for "break-in".  New gears and a new LSD generate a lot of heat (and the black oxide wearing off makes the fluid look scarier than it is), so I think REM is worth the money to get things pre-polished for that scenario.

 

I have also been told that REM is worth it for British formula car gears that have been cast in the ploughed soil of a turnip field in Norfolk (obscure Top Gear/Clarkson/Lotus joke there).  This is an unconfirmed anecdote, but perhaps it is similar to my position of using REM on new Kia gears.

 

Frankly, I don't know why Scrutineering would be looking so hard at gearboxes.  You can check the ratios externally, and your competitors are going to know if your shift points are out of line.  The countershaft spacer is legal now, so that's moot.  A borescope should see obvious REM/polishing, but again ... who cares?  Transmissions would be the last of my worries if I were wondering why someone had 3 mph more than me in trap speed.

[DrDomm]

Here's video of my Sunday race...it's not too long.  My ad hoc setup wasn't that great.

 

http://youtu.be/4sxBpTyFw8g

 

 

[Bench Racer]

Dr. Von Speedwell, your thoughts on Cryogenic Processing regardless of cost?