176 replies to this topic

[Tom Hampton]

I would rather not change shocks.  My car is perfect on 2010 shocks.  But the class will cease to grow if new cars can't be built.  SCCA/NASA should be deeply involved in the shock search/solution.

<chirp..chirp> <chirp..chirp> <chirp..chirp>

[Johnny D]

[Caveman-kwebb99]

[Jim Drago]

Dave, I appreciate your effort but will comment. What we have with the FC bump stop works fine. Why not find another shock which will fit with the existing FC bump stop at the same shock cost $90.00/$125.00 whatever has been normal. Then change the rule that either shock may be used.  Other than this ^, there are many scenario's where little Joe Blow will get screwed over the same as when not enough Fat Cat kits, bilstein shocks and ect.  

the why is simple.. We have a shock that causes us to beat the shit out of the cars and wear out tires, break sub frames, hubs etc. If we are going to be forced to change. Fix the issue as affordably as possible.  No offense Bench, you don't even race. For those of us that do, if forced to change shocks some would prefer changing to something that actually gives a little shock travel and is not so hard on the car. I don't want expensive racing shocks, but we might as well get it right if we have to change, not just replace with something of the same spec because it is cheap.  You can do this correctly and affordably IM0  ( 750 or so a set of  shocks or so). Which is less than a set of tires. 

[Bench Racer]

the why is simple.. We have a shock that causes us to beat the shit out of the cars and wear out tires, break sub frames, hubs etc. If we are going to be forced to change. Fix the issue as affordably as possible.  No offense Bench, you don't even race. For those of us that do, if forced to change shocks some would prefer changing to something that actually gives a little shock travel and is not so hard on the car. I don't want expensive racing shocks, but we might as well get it right if we have to change, not just replace with something of the same spec because it is cheap.  You can do this correctly and affordably IM0  ( 750 or so a set of  shocks or so). Which is less than a set of tires. 

No offense 2 time, per you, if you own a SM & do not drive said SM, keep your friking mouth shut. It's very likely I wouldn't be around when you turn 76, but if I am I'll surly ask you if you can bend your body well enough to get in a SM , I can but have lost the desire to drive.   Sarcasm mode off.

[Jim Drago]

No offense 2 time, per you, if you own a SM & do not drive said SM, keep your friking mouth shut. It's very likely I wouldn't be around when you turn 76, but if I am I'll surly ask you if you can bend your body well enough to get in a SM , I can but have lost the desire to drive.   Sarcasm mode off.

All kidding aside.. If we cant get shocks... the shocks we have now are not really what should have ever been speced for the car.. I think it is relevant to get feedback from those who are actually racing the cars regularly. It was not meant as a slight. 

[BNaumann]

Set a ride height rule to insure slamming bump stops never happens again. Something similar to what we run now. We dont want more shock travel only to allow tires to bottom out in fender well.

I don't think that will work out like you think it will.

[Jim Drago]

I don't think that will work out like you think it will.

Obviously I do   , maybe we can stop posting in code?

[BNaumann]

Obviously I do , maybe we can stop posting in code?

No code, just wanted you to think about it for a minute. Same spring rate, same ride height, more bump stop clearance means more bump travel.

I'm afraid a knee-jerk response is going to cause unforeseen problems. A shorter shock alone is not the answer. A shorter shock with a well-engineered longer bump stop might get you close. If you really want to stay off the bump stop you'll need stiffer springs. If you really want to make improvements it is going to involve the entire system.

My vote is to stick with the current setup, preferably the Bilstein, but if they can't provide I can point the powers that be in the right direction to source a comparable shock. It could be a curve match to the current so they can run side-by-side and will even be "sealed" by default (spun-closed, non-rebuildable). Somebody is going to need to either make a significant minimum order or agree to an annual production quantity though.

If you change the whole system I'm afraid you're going to create an SM1/SM2 situation and I think you'll lose a lot of casual competitors to the transition.

[Jim Drago]

No code, just wanted you to think about it for a minute. Same spring rate, same ride height, more bump stop clearance means more bump travel.

I'm afraid a knee-jerk response is going to cause unforeseen problems. A shorter shock alone is not the answer. A shorter shock with a well-engineered longer bump stop might get you close. If you really want to stay off the bump stop you'll need stiffer springs. If you really want to make improvements it is going to involve the entire system.

My vote is to stick with the current setup, preferably the Bilstein, but if they can't provide I can point the powers that be in the right direction to source a comparable shock. It could be a curve match to the current so they can run side-by-side and will even be "sealed" by default (spun-closed, non-rebuildable). Somebody is going to need to either make a significant minimum order or agree to an annual production quantity though.

If you change the whole system I'm afraid you're going to create an SM1/SM2 situation and I think you'll lose a lot of casual competitors to the transition.

Option one.. get constant supply of existing bilsteins..

 

If that is not something we can do...

 

 

That was in a post 10 or 20 posts ago. I realize bump stop may change.. 

 

If we change anything that costs more than what we are currently using and or performs differently 99% of all options. IMO we should fix as the few hundred extra dollars will be recovered quickly in better use of tires, less wear and tear on car. 

 

I understand your position and can see the validity in it, just think it may be time. I dont agree on sm1/sm2 deal. This is a small change and realistically very inexpensive. The fat cat stop would remain, worse case the existing stop may need to be used in full length. they also offer it in 2/3 lengths. One of them or another cut version will surely work fine. Or molded completely new from same vendor.   I think this could be fixed for about 1000 worst case even with new stops. If that is the case, it would be negligent IMO to leave as is. 

[Danica Davison]

Why do I feel like this conversation is just going in circles with no real update?

[Danica Davison]

Thank baby Jesus I got some of the last supply of shocks when I wrecked in August and got four brand new ones. Because if that happened more recently, I would be on some cheated up shit right now just so I can race. Regionally of course. Protest me

[William Keeling]

Thank baby Jesus I got some of the last supply of shocks when I wrecked in August and got four brand new ones. Because if that happened more recently, I would be on some cheated up shit right now just so I can race. Regionally of course. Protest me

I can't even get cheated up shit

[Johnny D]

Why do I feel like this conversation is just going in circles with no real update?

 

Because it is ??

 

https://www.scca.com...-making-process

 

https://www.crbscca.com/

 

J~

[Bench Racer]

A few well written letters of the shock strangulation to Mike Cobb President and Chief Executive Officer should get a response as to what the SCCA is doing to keep it's class with the largest number of entries functioning. 

[Richard Astacio]

Submitted a letter asking if Scca (1) if it is aware of the situation and (2) what is the plan.

I have a regional buddy who needs 2 shocks and will not participate in this weekend NER home opener due to no shocks available. 

He is an older gentlemen and only does this for fun and he waited to long knowing since last winter he shocks were done. 

[callumhay]

Submitted a letter asking if Scca (1) if it is aware of the situation and (2) what is the plan.
I have a regional buddy who needs 2 shocks and will not participate in this weekend NER home opener due to no shocks available. 
He is an older gentlemen and only does this for fun and he waited to long knowing since last winter he shocks were done.

The Bilstein thing is a real pain. If the guy you know is only doing it for fun, maybe he can put on different shocks and just sign a points waiver.

[William Keeling]

from Bilstein USA:

 

Hi William,

 

I apologize for the product shortage but our manufacturing facility in Germany is undergoing retooling and logistical changes that has caused this backorder. We are expecting restock in products in late July to early August. I recommend to keep in contact with your distributor as our stock does not reflect theirs and we do not have the ability to track their inventory.

 

Again I apologize for the backorder.

 

Thanks so much.

 

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

 

John Trexler

Technical Sales and Warranty Support Expert

thyssenkrupp Bilstein of America, Inc

[William Keeling]

From SCCA:

 

From: Rick Harris <rharris@scca.com>
Date: May 1, 2018 at 5:54:49 PM CDT
To: "williamkeeling@hotmail.com" <williamkeeling@hotmail.com>
Subject: Recently Submitted Letter No. 24547

Hello William,

 

Thank-you for your input on this sensitive matter. The SCCA is working very closely with Mazda for the SM Bilstein shock unavailability issue.

 

Information pertaining to this subject is forthcoming.

 

Thank-you,

 

 

Rick Harris

Road Racing Technical Manager | Sports Car Club of America

www.scca.com

785-862-7138

[Bench Racer]

Great job William, thanks.

 

Rick Harris, a timeline on the forthcoming information would ease the SM owners tension considerably. If the availability of Bilstein shocks is months out, maybe an alternate shock is in order to fill the temporary unavailability gap.

 

SCCA 250772

David Dewhurst